Olga Katz

Testimony

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Today's kaf alef beadar tav shin ain zain.

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The 19th of March 2017.

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I'm Dina from the Yad Vashem. interviewing

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Olga Katz. born in Antwerp. Belgium 1932.

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Olga will tell us she was very young girl when the war broke out.

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She was seven years when she was in a nunnery.

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She will tell us all about that.

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After the war. she came back to Antwerp. yes?

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Brussels.

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To Brussels.

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And you were raised with your uncle.

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And aunt and uncle of my mother.

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Yes. of your mother.

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You will tell us about that too.

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and later after five years.

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she went to the USA.

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got married. and lives there ever since.

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Olga. I would like to know about your background. about your family.

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If you know. you were very young so.

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we need to know about information that you probably got.

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Okay. I'm the daughter of Erin and Roza Goldstein.

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My mother's maiden name was Katz.

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and they had six children.

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I was next to the oldest one and my oldest sister was five years older.

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What was her name?

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My older sister. her name was Eva.

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and then I came.

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and after that her name was Suzanne.

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then Leah. then Herman. and Emil.

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We were six children.

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How old was the youngest?

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The youngest was born during the war.

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So he was a baby?

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He was an infant when they were gone.

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They were taken to Auschwitz.

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And which we call.

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My father was a diamond cutter.

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And he came to Belgium a few years before my mother

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because probably to establish

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a home that she should be able to come with my older sister.

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Where was your father born?

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He was born in Loza. Czechoslovakia.

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And my mother was born in Smolenice. Czechoslovakia also.

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What do you know why did they come to Antwerp?

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My assumption is that there was a depression during that time.

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and for financial reasons.

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Do you know something about your grandparents from your father's side.

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If you can enlarge on it.

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My grandparents.

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From what I understand.

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my grandfather passed away at a very young age.

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And my grandmother was living with.

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she had five children.

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four boys and one girl.

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And from what I understand.

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the kids supported their mother.

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and they took care of her one way or another.

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Each time somebody emigrated.

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she had to live in somebody else's home.

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And as a matter of fact.

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I know for a fact that she was also taken to Auschwitz.

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She went with one of her daughter in-laws to Auschwitz.

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And unfortunately. she didn't survive like many other people.

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How did they make their living?

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My grandfather from what I understand was a shohet.

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Apparently. that's a very professional thing in Europe.

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And from my mother's grandfather.

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he was also a shohet.

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This is what I was told.

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And he was a very prominent person in the town.

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He gave advice.

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He was like a rabbi or something like that.

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What was his name?

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I have to think.

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Yosef Katz.

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Sorry. And my grandmother's name was Sarah.

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And we have one daughter named after her.

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And from what I was told that the town was a Gentile town where my grandparents lived.

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And my cousin told me a few things.

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He says that he remembers that they were doing cabbage.

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They were souring the cabbage.

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He remembers as a young kid.

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going into a barrel and stampeding.

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matching the cabbage down.

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And something else he does remember that Christmas. shortly after Christmas.

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he went through the town to collect candy.

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Apparently. the Gentile people threw candy all around.

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And his memory is also very short and he was a very young kid

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when he was there and he had a lovely beautiful mother.

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What was here name. This is your aunt. yes?

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My aunt. right.

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What was her name?

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Sandra. Oh!

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It should be Olga Katz.

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Apparently. I have the name that was given to her.

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And what do you know about your aunt?

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My aunt. Olga. maiden name.

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This is from your mother's side?

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That's from my mother's side. Yes.

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What do you know about her?

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Not much really.

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I know she was the mother of two children.

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and she. at one point.

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they emigrated to Israel and then when her mother.

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which is my grandmother got sick.

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they came back for about a year or so to help her

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recover from her illness. and then they went back to Israel.

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And that's the last time they saw her.

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Oh you want more?

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My parents were living in Belgium.

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And as everyone knows.

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the war started in Belgium in May 1940.

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And we tried to run away from the invasion of the Germans but apparently-

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Do you have any. sorry to interrupt you.

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Do you have any reminiscence.

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or knowledge about the life of your parents between 1933 to let's say 40?

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My assumption is that's as I told you before.

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it must have been depression time.

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And my father must have gone

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trying other countries to make a living to support the family.

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From what did he make his living. your father?

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From what I was.

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he had no profession probably to start with.

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From what I understand.

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he made a stopover in Luxembourg and tried to be a baker.

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Apparently. he did not succeed and he went to Antwerp.

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Over there. he became a diamond cutter.

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How many brothers and sisters did he have?

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He had four.

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They were four boys and one girl.

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Do you know all their names?

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One was Stapheth. one was Avram.

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and I don't recall the other ones.

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And their names are on the tombs some of one of the brothers that passed away.

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So you said previously that your father's stop in Brussels. and you wanted to be.

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No. in Antwerp. His stopped originally in Luxembourg.

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In Luxembourg. yes.

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And over there. he tried to be a baker

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which apparently. whatever happened it did not happen.

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he went to Belgium.

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Yes.

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Antwerp he then became a diamond cutter.

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And during that interim.

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my mother must have gone home to her parent's house.

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And because of it.

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I'm assuming from what I understand.

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that's where our grandchild was born. my older sister.

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And my knowledge is from hearing of people not actually know.

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Of course you cannot remember.

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Right. know all those things.

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Do you know how did your parents meet?

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I have no knowledge who made this shidduch or anything like that.

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You know something about them that you can describe about your.

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Or did you. have you heard something about your mother or your father?

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Unfortunately not because.

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So you know nothing of them.

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Exactly you know. Unfortunately. we did not have a family in Antwerp.

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And before the war.

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I was five years old.

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And during the war. life was hectic so. you know. we were.

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You were not told by a relative.

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or by your uncle.

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Unfortunately not.

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I was foolish and not asking questions. you know.

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Now. I regret all that not having asked any questions.

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Do you know why you never asked?

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Probably. I'm assuming being foolish. nothing more.

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Maybe as when you're young.

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you're not as interested as you are when you're becoming adult.

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As an adult. you would like to know the background of your family and things like that.

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But as a child. you know.

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So. actually about your parents.

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you don't know anything?

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I cannot even visualize them.

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The only thing I got. have from the German government.

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which is really after the war.

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all the documents. I got pictures of my parents.

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So. through the documents.

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you can hold a little information.

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I can even get.

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Did they register themselves when the war broke out.

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Did they register themselves?

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What was going on?

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The thing. as far as I know.

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I understand through documentation that I have read and things like that.

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That the adults had to register and take a picture.

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which unfortunately became a hindrance because on that basis.

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they checked on everything.

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All the children were listed in the documentation.

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and they were all written.

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Unfortunately. all those documentation.

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the Germans did the wonderful thing.

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they document that information.

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My father had to report to work in some ways in the summer of 1942.

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From what we understand.

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he was sent to the Atlantic Wall.

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whereby they built armaments of

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some sort into the canyons or the walls of a day to prevent the invasion of the.

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I believe it was the British and the Americans.

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From what we saw. the document.

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they asked the profession of each individual person.

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My father apparently was smart enough

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not to put down diamond cutter because as a diamond cutter.

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he would have been useless.

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So. he put down a baker on the documentation.

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He sent one card home that everything is well.

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This was sent through the Red Cross.

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As everyone knows that it's not true.

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They were forced to write those little notes that everything was well.

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what happened later on.

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But prior to that over time.

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the Germans gave us a hard time.

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My father had to cut off his beard.

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Religious school. public school was prevented from us.

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We were going to Jewish school.

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Do you remember the school you've been to?

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Something of Fekfamori.

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Yes. or which we call.

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we had to ware the Jewish star.

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We could not go outside.

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And there was a curfew with certain hours.

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we were not allowed to travel.

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Yes.

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You wore the Yuddenshtern?

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Yes I did. Definitely.

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Yes.

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During the winter of 1942.

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I had pneumonia. and I was quite sick.

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In those days they didn't have penicillin or anything like that.

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From what I assume and recall not very fresh.

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I was there for quite some time.

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I would guess like a month or so if not more.

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And apparently. after I recovered. I went home.

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And during the summer of 1942.

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I was sent to a camp apparently through

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the government for healing because I must have

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been in a very weak condition because of the pneumonia.

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During that time unfortunately.

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my mother and five kids were taken.

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and they were sent to an army barrack camp from what I understand.

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And two days later.

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they were sent on the train to Auschwitz.

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and it was considered the 11th transport.

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As a matter of fact. on the documentation they even

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show the number that each one was assigned.

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and they never came back from there.

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I assume Olga. that before all that your parents tried to escape. Did they?

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Because we know that from Antwerpen many Jews tried at

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the beginning to escape maybe to France or to-

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Well. I do remember when we left.

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Do you know something about that?

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We left the house after the invasion of the Germans.

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Yes.

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And how long we went on the road or what.

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but eventually we did come back.

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Because apparently there was no outlet where my parents and we could get through.

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I'm assuming the borders were closed.

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and that was it.

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we had to come home.

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Do you know until when your father had the permission to work as a diamond cutter?

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I really don't know.

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Is nothing about it.

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Nothing. I know he worked in the house.

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Also. I recall we had a large table whereby he was working with diamonds.

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But my. from what I know.

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he was working prior.

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In the good times whatever that was.

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he had a work place.

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and the place at home where he did the work.

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Do you remember something of your religious life as a child?

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Chagim. a synagogue.

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I know my parents went to the synagogue.

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No question about it.

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Yes. But do you remember any recollection of a synagogue. of the holiday Pesach. Purim?

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Not at all.

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Nothing. It's blank completely blank.

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Nothing. Your father praying?

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I remember him praying.

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I remember in the house on which we call.

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It must have Shabbes whereby he was

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looking at the stars outside. to count the stars.

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My assumption that he wasn't allowed to go out anymore.

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Because of the curfew.

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And you remember your father.

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You said that they forced your father to cut his beard?

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Right.

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Do you remember that?

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This specifically not.

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But I know this was in the laws.

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And from what I see of the pictures that we have presently.

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He did not have a beard.

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So. he had.

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Yes.

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To cut his beard.

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Right.

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From a high holidays. Chagim nothing?

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Nothing at all.

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Unfortunately no.

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Sukkot. Pesach?

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No. Nothing at all really.

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All that has blanked out.

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I know we'd led the religious life that much I know.

00:17:38.220 00:17:41.220

but what of holidays or anything .

00:17:41.220 00:17:44.080

truly. I don't remember.

00:17:44.080 00:17:48.780

Actually where your first memory starts?

00:17:48.780 00:17:50.665

Continuously not.

00:17:50.665 00:17:52.660

Everything is like broken up.

00:17:52.660 00:17:54.945

I have a little picture here.

00:17:54.945 00:17:57.000

little picture there. little picture there.

00:17:57.000 00:18:00.335

You have a little picture of your home something?

00:18:00.335 00:18:02.495

The way my home looked?

00:18:02.495 00:18:07.000

The way your home looked. A toy that you had. a puppet.

00:18:07.000 00:18:11.220

Do you remember any toy you played with?

00:18:11.220 00:18:13.210

You were so many children.

00:18:13.210 00:18:17.080

Right. I remember playing with other kids in the street.

00:18:17.080 00:18:20.560

and then park. there was a park not far from us.

00:18:20.560 00:18:24.240

But specifically of anything. really not.

00:18:24.240 00:18:27.260

Do you remember your elder sister?

00:18:27.260 00:18:32.025

At present. then I remembered she was a blonde girl.

00:18:32.025 00:18:34.675

Most of the kids in our family were blonde.

00:18:34.675 00:18:39.695

I think just one myself was with dark hair.

00:18:39.695 00:18:44.080

which was an advantage underneath the Germans saint.

00:18:44.080 00:18:47.710

What do you know about your elder sister?

00:18:47.710 00:18:49.630

Really nothing.

00:18:49.630 00:18:51.295

Nothing unfortunately.

00:18:51.295 00:18:56.670

As I said. I have with the intentionally or unintentionally.

00:18:56.670 00:18:59.565

I really don't remember.

00:18:59.565 00:19:05.250

I don't even remember going from the Summer camp.

00:19:05.250 00:19:08.115

going to the nunnery afterwards.

00:19:08.115 00:19:11.820

I do remember sitting in front of the nuns and they told me.

00:19:11.820 00:19:14.070

my name is gonna be Dupont.

00:19:14.070 00:19:20.910

D-U-P-O-N-T. And that's all I remember of that year.

00:19:20.910 00:19:22.950

I remember the bombing.

00:19:22.950 00:19:25.170

when we were in the nunnery.

00:19:25.170 00:19:27.090

I remember many nights.

00:19:27.090 00:19:29.625

Yes. But I want to maybe you remember something more.

00:19:29.625 00:19:33.605

My family. More about my family.

00:19:33.605 00:19:35.805

Unfortunately not really.

00:19:35.805 00:19:37.180

That's where.

00:19:37.180 00:19:45.360

To when do you remember the last time you saw your family?

00:19:45.360 00:19:47.040

Not really.

00:19:47.040 00:19:49.900

Not in the real sense. No.

00:19:51.150 00:19:54.790

Even you don't remember that you were sick.

00:19:54.790 00:19:57.460

you came back. and you saw your family.

00:19:57.460 00:19:58.560

Right. I remember.

00:19:58.560 00:20:00.325

You don't remember nothing of that?

00:20:00.325 00:20:00.990

Nothing.

00:20:00.990 00:20:10.860

Unfortunately nothing.

00:20:10.860 00:20:12.740

Oh. I'm sorry.

00:20:12.740 00:20:14.520

If we stop here.

00:20:14.520 00:20:14.950

Yes.

00:20:14.950 00:20:18.370

Maybe you can add something.

00:20:18.370 00:20:20.810

Because I feel probably its a pity.

00:20:20.810 00:20:27.300

I know it's a pity. I don't-

00:20:27.300 00:20:31.440

Okay. let me go back a little bit.

00:20:31.870 00:20:35.255

Well. while my parents were living in Belgium.

00:20:35.255 00:20:39.250

my father occasionally went back to his hometown to visit

00:20:39.250 00:20:44.990

his mother who lived with her son.

00:20:44.990 00:20:47.294

and that was in Loza.

00:20:47.294 00:20:51.175

and Serlich it's called nowadays really.

00:20:51.175 00:20:54.010

He used to bring oranges and things.

00:20:54.010 00:20:58.315

fruits that they didn't have in Serlich that is Hungary.

00:20:58.315 00:21:06.170

And my mother occasionally went back to her hometown in a Smolnik to visit her family.

00:21:06.170 00:21:08.970

and she went there with my older sister.

00:21:08.970 00:21:12.250

That was all before I was born.

00:21:12.820 00:21:16.945

which we call a- Yes my grandmother.

00:21:16.945 00:21:18.790

on my father's side.

00:21:18.790 00:21:22.035

had the "Sidur" when which she looked at it every morning.

00:21:22.035 00:21:24.840

and there was a picture of my older sister.

00:21:24.840 00:21:28.520

And she was so always with tears in her eyes.

00:21:28.520 00:21:32.255

she always looked at the picture because probably

00:21:32.255 00:21:37.955

realizing that times will be very difficult and they might not see one another.

00:21:37.955 00:21:43.885

And also. let me go back a little bit.

00:21:43.885 00:21:47.885

While I was hospitalized. Excuse me.

00:21:47.885 00:21:55.640

It was a very unpleasant situation in the hospital because I was alone without family.

00:21:55.640 00:21:58.930

My parents came occasionally to visit me.

00:21:58.930 00:22:03.650

Probably. it was limited to how much they could come.

00:22:03.880 00:22:08.065

It was a very tough situation in the hospital.

00:22:08.065 00:22:10.700

What do you remember of their visits?

00:22:10.700 00:22:13.940

Visit? I remember that I was in

00:22:13.940 00:22:19.210

an isolated room completely alone and my parents were looking at.

00:22:19.210 00:22:23.010

we were looking at one another through a window.

00:22:23.010 00:22:27.020

It was very isolated because in those days.

00:22:27.020 00:22:31.515

sickness was very contagious and things like that.

00:22:31.515 00:22:35.300

So. it was very unpleasant.

00:22:35.300 00:22:37.040

Who took you there?

00:22:37.040 00:22:39.155

Who took you to the hospital?

00:22:39.155 00:22:42.670

Unfortunately. my parents were not able to take me to

00:22:42.670 00:22:46.230

the hospital because it was of restriction of time.

00:22:46.230 00:22:49.260

And my sister who happens to be blonde.

00:22:49.260 00:22:53.365

whereby the Germans did not bother them too much.

00:22:53.365 00:22:56.790

she was able to take me to the hospital over night.

00:22:56.790 00:23:00.390

And she probably stayed with me until my parents came and

00:23:00.390 00:23:04.280

verified everything to check me in and things like that.

00:23:04.280 00:23:06.410

It must have been very hard.

00:23:06.410 00:23:08.420

Where was this hospital?

00:23:08.420 00:23:11.205

My assumption. in Antwerp.

00:23:11.205 00:23:12.315

It was in Antwerp?

00:23:12.315 00:23:17.060

Yes. And unfortunately. my sister must have had a very tough time

00:23:17.060 00:23:22.495

because she had to share a lot of burdens with my family. with my parents.

00:23:22.495 00:23:26.115

And the rest of the kids were much younger than I

00:23:26.115 00:23:30.955

was and it must have been very harsh on her.

00:23:30.955 00:23:35.680

Especially when they were taken to prisoners.

00:23:35.680 00:23:37.160

into the army camp.

00:23:37.160 00:23:41.760

whereby from what I have read the life was very harsh over there.

00:23:41.760 00:23:45.090

It was muddy and dirty and everything like that.

00:23:45.090 00:23:46.530

And two days later.

00:23:46.530 00:23:52.265

they were sent on the transport to Auschwitz.

00:23:52.265 00:23:57.060

One minute. Your father was sent from where to Auschwitz?

00:23:57.640 00:24:05.020

My father was sent first to the Atlantic Wall and then for one reason

00:24:05.020 00:24:07.945

or another they brought him back

00:24:07.945 00:24:11.765

to the camp whereby my mother had been there a month before.

00:24:11.765 00:24:16.870

He was sent there a month after my mother had evacuated that place.

00:24:16.870 00:24:22.450

And from there. he was sent to Auschwitz on the 60.

00:24:22.450 00:24:23.145

Which camp was it?

00:24:23.145 00:24:24.150

I don't know.

00:24:24.150 00:24:24.670

Do you know the name of the camp?

00:24:24.670 00:24:27.215

There is some place where it's listed the camp.

00:24:27.215 00:24:29.830

I do not know of hand.

00:24:31.660 00:24:36.395

So. your mother was sent with all the children.

00:24:36.395 00:24:37.790

Five kids. little.

00:24:37.790 00:24:41.465

For one month to a camp. concentration camp?

00:24:41.465 00:24:45.170

No. No. for two days only.

00:24:45.170 00:24:47.600

She went to that camp.

00:24:47.600 00:24:50.375

it's a army base camp.

00:24:50.375 00:24:51.975

from what I understand.

00:24:51.975 00:24:55.240

And two days later. all the people they gather together.

00:24:55.240 00:25:00.895

Apparently. they needed a certain amount of people to complete each transport.

00:25:00.895 00:25:03.560

And from what I understand two days later.

00:25:03.560 00:25:07.540

that transport was completed and they were sent to Auschwitz.

00:25:07.540 00:25:10.595

What language did you speak at home?

00:25:10.595 00:25:16.850

At home. I know from Antwerp I went to a Flemish School.

00:25:16.850 00:25:19.795

and we learned a little bit French.

00:25:19.795 00:25:22.835

Belgium was a bilingual country.

00:25:22.835 00:25:24.690

and my assumption. at home.

00:25:24.690 00:25:33.010

we must have spoken Yiddish and in school it was Flemish because Antwerp was Flemish.

00:25:33.010 00:25:36.355

Do you remember something of your schooling well?

00:25:36.355 00:25:37.855

Nothing.

00:25:37.855 00:25:39.070

Nothing that much.

00:25:39.070 00:25:39.310

Nothing?

00:25:39.310 00:25:44.205

No. I just remember going to school and that's it.

00:25:44.205 00:25:48.810

We were deprived of going to a public school.

00:25:50.080 00:25:53.065

So. you went to a Jewish school?

00:25:53.065 00:25:54.610

Yes. They send us.

00:25:54.610 00:25:57.070

That's the only thing that we were able to do.

00:25:57.070 00:26:00.280

But you remember nothing of that school?

00:26:00.280 00:26:02.990

No. No. it's unfortunately.

00:26:02.990 00:26:06.340

my mind has blocked that off of other things.

00:26:06.340 00:26:11.890

And from what all the documentation we have gathered.

00:26:11.890 00:26:19.800

my father died on his birthday. January 1st.

00:26:25.570 00:26:29.945

And he went. also must have a very tough time.

00:26:29.945 00:26:34.895

My assumption that. when he went to the Atlantic Wall.

00:26:34.895 00:26:36.260

they must have worked very.

00:26:36.260 00:26:42.330

very hard and they abused the people from what we know of today.

00:26:44.650 00:26:50.000

And from there. I was sent to the nunnery from the camp.

00:26:50.000 00:26:50.660

Just a moment.

00:26:50.660 00:26:51.500

Sure.

00:26:51.500 00:26:54.785

Maybe we can know a little more.

00:26:54.785 00:27:01.835

Maybe a little more information about your family before they left.

00:27:01.835 00:27:04.725

before they were sent away.

00:27:04.725 00:27:12.440

Unfortunately. I truly do not have a memory at all of them.

00:27:13.690 00:27:17.175

I know the street where we live.

00:27:17.175 00:27:20.615

It was 27 Van Immerseel street.

00:27:20.615 00:27:22.340

That I remember very vividly.

00:27:22.340 00:27:25.140

Do you remember playing with children?

00:27:25.570 00:27:34.230

Actually. perhaps on the street we played. but very definitely.

00:27:34.660 00:27:37.520

My assumption is that we were

00:27:37.520 00:27:42.500

afraid because we knew what was going on in the street with the Germans.

00:27:42.500 00:27:46.060

that they were picking up people all the time.

00:27:46.060 00:27:48.910

So. we were very cautious.

00:27:48.910 00:27:52.320

How we managed to go to school. I don't recall.

00:27:52.320 00:27:54.365

Do you remember the Germans at all?

00:27:54.365 00:27:57.795

Yes. I remember seeing the Germans around.

00:27:57.795 00:28:06.695

It was scary and that's it from my family.

00:28:06.695 00:28:12.290

Your parents always wore the Jewish badge?

00:28:12.290 00:28:15.515

Yes. Whenever they came in.

00:28:15.515 00:28:19.160

It was a certain time where they inaugurated

00:28:19.160 00:28:24.550

the badge Jewish star and we had to wear it on the clothing.

00:28:24.710 00:28:27.410

And fortunately. we did wear it.

00:28:27.410 00:28:31.440

I remember sewing it on the outer garments always.

00:28:31.440 00:28:33.125

It was never hidden.

00:28:33.125 00:28:34.480

We had to wear them openly.

00:28:34.480 00:28:39.100

Do you remember a certain food that your mother cooked?

00:28:39.100 00:28:39.700

No.

00:28:39.700 00:28:41.810

For shabbat or something?

00:28:41.810 00:28:47.010

Unfortunately. I don't even remember shabbat or anything like that.

00:28:47.010 00:28:50.740

Because you were already almost seven years old.

00:28:50.740 00:28:53.180

Right. I do not remember.

00:28:53.180 00:28:54.425

You remember nothing?

00:28:54.425 00:28:58.580

Nothing. Unfortunately. whether my mind playing dead or what.

00:28:58.580 00:29:03.670

To be very honest. even many.

00:29:03.670 00:29:07.955

many years ago when I came out of all that misery.

00:29:07.955 00:29:11.765

I really don't remember remembering anything.

00:29:11.765 00:29:19.655

So. unfortunately. I can't do what I can't do.

00:29:19.655 00:29:22.955

So while. maybe we will we go on now.

00:29:22.955 00:29:27.490

while you were sent to these hospital.

00:29:27.490 00:29:30.380

your parents actually were sent to Auschwitz.

00:29:30.380 00:29:32.610

No. while I was in a camp.

00:29:32.610 00:29:34.065

in a summer camp.

00:29:34.065 00:29:35.380

That's when my mother.

00:29:35.380 00:29:38.620

and the children were sent to Auschwitz.

00:29:38.620 00:29:41.900

What do you know about which summer camp was it?

00:29:41.900 00:29:43.130

Who arranged this summer camp?

00:29:43.130 00:29:44.330

I don't know.

00:29:44.330 00:29:46.580

Was it only a Jewish summer camp?

00:29:46.580 00:29:50.350

It definitely was not only a Jewish summer camp. It was a mixed.

00:29:50.350 00:29:52.445

You were sent after you were sick.

00:29:52.445 00:29:54.260

that's the reason you were sent?

00:29:54.260 00:29:58.230

From what I understand through the government.

00:29:58.230 00:30:00.600

Because the question is why none of

00:30:00.600 00:30:04.195

the others is there or children were not sent to the camp?

00:30:04.195 00:30:06.525

So on that basis. I'm assuming.

00:30:06.525 00:30:11.725

it was the government that was in charge and send me to the camp.

00:30:11.725 00:30:13.585

For recovery?

00:30:13.585 00:30:14.984

Recovery.

00:30:14.984 00:30:16.355

For recovery?

00:30:16.355 00:30:18.155

That's my assumption.

00:30:18.155 00:30:18.580

Yes.

00:30:18.580 00:30:20.020

Because I was the only one.

00:30:20.020 00:30:24.990

There's no reason why the oldest one didn't go or younger than me didn't go.

00:30:24.990 00:30:26.810

Just I went by myself.

00:30:26.810 00:30:32.755

Do you remember when your baby brother was born?

00:30:32.755 00:30:33.390

No.

00:30:33.390 00:30:36.530

Also not the circumcision ceremony?

00:30:36.530 00:30:37.970

No. no. no nothing.

00:30:37.970 00:30:40.475

I do remember babysitting.

00:30:40.475 00:30:44.795

watching the kids while my parents went some place.

00:30:44.795 00:30:46.660

I have no clue where they went.

00:30:46.660 00:30:48.555

They never told us where they went.

00:30:48.555 00:30:51.435

Like for several hours or things like that.

00:30:51.435 00:30:54.085

Where or what they went for.

00:30:54.085 00:30:59.820

they never told us why.

00:30:59.820 00:31:01.890

We were living a secretive life.

00:31:01.890 00:31:06.390

My assumption is you're not fearful and all that.

00:31:06.390 00:31:11.620

Do you remember neighbors. children of neighbors?

00:31:11.620 00:31:15.490

I remember our next door neighbor.

00:31:15.490 00:31:17.210

Their name was Clap.

00:31:17.210 00:31:18.930

That's about it.

00:31:18.930 00:31:25.375

There were a lot of boys in that household. and that's it.

00:31:25.375 00:31:28.175

Fortunately. when asked this question.

00:31:28.175 00:31:31.915

and I've two boys from the camp.

00:31:31.915 00:31:34.915

I went to a nunnery.

00:31:34.915 00:31:38.510

Apparently. it was taken by the Jewish Committee.

00:31:38.510 00:31:40.350

How was it?

00:31:40.350 00:31:42.995

You were in this camp. yes?

00:31:42.995 00:31:47.965

And from the camp you were sent to the nunnery by whom?

00:31:47.965 00:31:50.080

You know by whom?

00:31:50.080 00:31:52.670

Who took you to the nunnery?

00:31:52.670 00:31:57.040

I don't remember specifically who took me but

00:31:57.040 00:32:01.100

from what I understand from the documentation that we received.

00:32:01.100 00:32:06.090

it was sent by a Jewish Committee sponsored by the United States.

00:32:06.090 00:32:10.440

through the Jewish Committee here in the United States.

00:32:10.440 00:32:12.980

Yes.

00:32:12.980 00:32:18.540

And they even paid them.

00:32:18.540 00:32:20.420

Every so often they gave them money.

00:32:20.420 00:32:23.620

All that was documented on papers.

00:32:23.620 00:32:25.750

They gave money to the nunnery.

00:32:25.750 00:32:28.600

To the nunnery for the support.

00:32:28.600 00:32:35.075

because from what I assume that the nunnery was also in dire need of money.

00:32:35.075 00:32:37.720

because they had so many children over there.

00:32:37.720 00:32:42.240

Do you remember the first day in the nunnery?

00:32:42.240 00:32:44.750

There was a special person that took you there?

00:32:44.750 00:32:46.930

A woman. A woman took me there.

00:32:46.930 00:32:50.380

I don't remember actually going.

00:32:50.380 00:32:53.335

I do remember when I arrived there.

00:32:53.335 00:32:57.455

I sat down in front by the head nun.

00:32:57.455 00:32:59.820

and they told me very nicely.

00:32:59.820 00:33:03.750

from now on. you cannot use the name Goldstein anymore.

00:33:03.750 00:33:06.705

You'll have to use the name Depol?

00:33:06.705 00:33:09.240

Who changed the name?

00:33:09.240 00:33:10.950

Over there in the nunnery?

00:33:10.950 00:33:11.760

Yes.

00:33:11.760 00:33:13.740

They gave me that name.

00:33:13.740 00:33:17.740

and that name I had to use from then on.

00:33:19.850 00:33:25.050

The first day. you remember you were seven and more than seven.

00:33:25.050 00:33:25.410

That's right.

00:33:25.410 00:33:28.365

You remember the first day in the nunnery?

00:33:28.365 00:33:38.225

No. I remember washing the floors and I remember sleeping.

00:33:38.225 00:33:41.940

We slept like in cribs like and we had to

00:33:41.940 00:33:46.710

sleep on our back and cross our arms in front of us.

00:33:46.710 00:33:52.470

And I do remember we had to pray on our knees before going to sleep.

00:33:52.470 00:33:58.249

And I do remember over time.

00:33:58.249 00:34:04.070

there were a lot of bombings going on all around us and I remember

00:34:04.070 00:34:10.630

waking up during the night and we had to walk in order. on the outside.

00:34:10.630 00:34:12.440

There was a courtyard.

00:34:12.440 00:34:17.140

and they gave us a wet rag to put them over our nose and mouth.

00:34:17.140 00:34:18.680

And we were walking.

00:34:18.680 00:34:21.995

it seemed like hours while they were bombing.

00:34:21.995 00:34:25.880

Just probably in case we had to run away or something like that.

00:34:25.880 00:34:33.020

Do you remember playing with children?

00:34:33.020 00:34:35.000

Over. in the nunnery?

00:34:35.000 00:34:36.500

Yeah in the nunnery.

00:34:36.500 00:34:38.600

The language which you were speaking.

00:34:38.600 00:34:43.610

The language was basically over there.

00:34:43.610 00:34:48.440

I was went to a section that was for Flemish School.

00:34:48.440 00:34:55.465

but over there I improved my French and eventually I went to French section.

00:34:55.465 00:35:00.230

and I do remember we were sitting in the catechism classes.

00:35:00.230 00:35:01.385

Catechism?

00:35:01.385 00:35:04.565

Yes. We had to learn everything.

00:35:04.565 00:35:07.715

all the rules and regulations.

00:35:07.715 00:35:09.620

I remember going.

00:35:09.620 00:35:12.045

Like what? What were the rules there?

00:35:12.045 00:35:14.320

I don't remember that.

00:35:14.330 00:35:19.625

and I do remember when we had to cross ourselves.

00:35:19.625 00:35:27.570

I did it in a strange way to avoid crossing myself the other way.

00:35:28.120 00:35:35.090

I know for a fact. I knew I was Jewish and I had to be quiet not to say anything.

00:35:35.090 00:35:39.525

The question is. who prepared you to all that?

00:35:39.525 00:35:43.470

What did you know of the Jewish prayers that you remember?

00:35:43.470 00:35:45.980

Did you remember "Mode Ani"?

00:35:45.980 00:35:48.440

I don't know. I couldn't begin to tell you.

00:35:48.440 00:35:51.665

"Moda Ani" before going to sleep.

00:35:51.665 00:35:53.750

did you remember those prayers?

00:35:53.750 00:35:55.040

No. I did not.

00:35:55.040 00:35:56.660

So. the question is.

00:35:56.660 00:36:01.780

on one hand you say you don't remember anything on the other you said.

00:36:01.780 00:36:03.885

oh I knew I was Jewish.

00:36:03.885 00:36:10.545

I knew I had to do that to cross when I had to make the cross.

00:36:10.545 00:36:12.960

I did it on the other side.

00:36:12.960 00:36:13.425

Right.

00:36:13.425 00:36:20.940

But that meant that you knew or a prayer or something.

00:36:20.940 00:36:23.720

I must have known. as you're asking me the question I wish I could answer you.

00:36:23.720 00:36:25.220

I really don't know.

00:36:25.220 00:36:28.715

Because this is interesting to understand.

00:36:28.715 00:36:32.420

My assumption the mentality of a child

00:36:32.420 00:36:37.120

that under the circumstances you know what to be careful of.

00:36:37.120 00:36:39.390

It's amazing.

00:36:39.390 00:36:42.395

To me. in some ways I'm impressed.

00:36:42.395 00:36:48.660

I see children who are under certain pressure and they know what to do.

00:36:51.940 00:36:55.510

That's my understanding of what went on.

00:36:55.510 00:36:56.185

Yeah.

00:36:56.185 00:37:00.175

That I was so cautious and careful.

00:37:00.175 00:37:03.105

Now. they changed your name. yes?

00:37:03.105 00:37:06.585

Correct. Yes. to Dupont.

00:37:06.585 00:37:09.765

So. who told you all that?

00:37:09.765 00:37:11.085

Who told you. "Now.

00:37:11.085 00:37:15.720

from now onwards your name is so and so."

00:37:15.720 00:37:16.800

Head nun.

00:37:16.800 00:37:18.960

When we went to immediately.

00:37:18.960 00:37:19.920

The head nun yes?

00:37:19.920 00:37:20.430

Right.

00:37:20.430 00:37:21.195

Yes.

00:37:21.195 00:37:23.660

And she told me that from now on.

00:37:23.660 00:37:27.800

your name is going to be Dupont and forget about Goldstein.

00:37:27.800 00:37:31.650

And they did keep my first name Olga.

00:37:31.650 00:37:32.580

Yeah.

00:37:32.580 00:37:37.665

And I do remember also that many times

00:37:37.665 00:37:44.115

the Gestapo used to come to the place and we were hidden.

00:37:44.115 00:37:44.610

Where?

00:37:44.610 00:37:46.620

In the attic.

00:37:46.620 00:37:49.850

We had to be very quiet.

00:37:49.850 00:37:56.129

I believe I was there with other children but from what I remember.

00:37:56.129 00:38:03.555

they told us not to talk and not to speak to one another and not to move.

00:38:03.555 00:38:06.870

It had happened several times.

00:38:06.870 00:38:09.720

And it's amazing that none of

00:38:09.720 00:38:13.885

the other children who remained behind didn't ask any questions.

00:38:13.885 00:38:18.100

why we were in the attic or things like that.

00:38:19.380 00:38:23.155

It was a very secretive thing.

00:38:23.155 00:38:29.945

How was your daily life there from the beginning?

00:38:29.945 00:38:32.550

When did you get up?

00:38:32.550 00:38:34.890

When did you have to pray?

00:38:34.890 00:38:36.840

When did you.

00:38:36.840 00:38:40.755

Go to school and catechism class. I barely not know i'm assuming was under.

00:38:40.755 00:38:43.485

And you don't remember the school either?

00:38:43.485 00:38:46.125

It was in the premises but by the nun.

00:38:46.125 00:38:47.685

We did not go outside. it was under premises

00:38:47.685 00:38:48.960

it was on the campus.

00:38:48.960 00:38:52.275

It was the first time that you learn how to read. Yes?

00:38:52.275 00:38:55.345

Well. probably I used to read before.

00:38:55.345 00:38:58.400

I was seven years old over there.

00:38:58.400 00:39:01.590

I'm sure read before.

00:39:01.590 00:39:04.455

Reading and writing and all that.

00:39:04.455 00:39:10.140

But you remember nothing of the school.

00:39:10.140 00:39:11.580

No. and not.

00:39:11.580 00:39:17.685

Are you a member of this nunnery and you knew already to read?

00:39:17.685 00:39:20.370

I'm assuming so. Sure.

00:39:20.370 00:39:24.360

Now. you were many children in this nunnery.

00:39:24.360 00:39:24.840

Right.

00:39:24.840 00:39:27.195

You remember playing with the children.

00:39:27.195 00:39:29.205

What games did you play?

00:39:29.205 00:39:31.335

I really do not.

00:39:31.335 00:39:34.860

I have no. I remember playing with a doll.

00:39:34.860 00:39:37.830

That is the extent of my memory from there.

00:39:37.830 00:39:40.440

The doll was taken from home.

00:39:40.440 00:39:44.770

or it was given to you?

00:39:44.770 00:39:46.695

In the nunnery right.

00:39:46.695 00:39:48.615

I did not have.

00:39:48.615 00:39:51.480

I don't remember playing with other children.

00:39:51.480 00:39:54.090

but from what I understand now.

00:39:54.090 00:39:57.765

reviewing all that and looking on through the Internet.

00:39:57.765 00:40:00.675

that there were many Jewish children there.

00:40:00.675 00:40:02.775

As a matter of fact. one of the nun.

00:40:02.775 00:40:10.320

the head nun has an honorary degree or whatever you want to call.

00:40:10.320 00:40:12.765

by the righteous Yad Vashem.

00:40:12.765 00:40:14.310

Her name is there.

00:40:14.310 00:40:17.260

I don't recall her name.

00:40:18.290 00:40:23.320

I did not compare with all my knowledge that I have at home.

00:40:23.320 00:40:29.805

Did you meet with kindness in this nunnery?

00:40:29.805 00:40:34.610

It couldn't have been bitterness because I don't remember crying a lot.

00:40:34.610 00:40:38.630

but I'm assuming I cried from loneliness.

00:40:38.630 00:40:41.520

Or longing for your family or?

00:40:41.520 00:40:44.190

Lonely from everything. The whole world.

00:40:44.190 00:40:46.575

being isolated and all that.

00:40:46.575 00:40:50.010

Not knowing what's going on with you.

00:40:51.080 00:40:56.140

My assumption it must have been very hard.

00:40:56.540 00:40:58.170

I can imagine.

00:40:58.170 00:40:58.650

Yeah.

00:40:58.650 00:41:05.490

Do you remember going to sleep?

00:41:05.490 00:41:10.790

Yes. Sleep crying that I remember vividly

00:41:10.790 00:41:16.200

and the nuns constantly were checking

00:41:16.200 00:41:18.720

a whole night to make sure that you were laying flat

00:41:18.720 00:41:21.690

on your backs with your arms crossed.

00:41:21.690 00:41:25.090

That was one of the requirements.

00:41:28.410 00:41:33.330

I remember big cross in the center of the building.

00:41:33.330 00:41:35.050

It was a long room.

00:41:35.050 00:41:38.720

And the nuns slept on the same floor as we did.

00:41:38.720 00:41:47.200

but they had L-curves. completely enclosed.

00:41:47.200 00:41:49.750

And there were bathrooms.

00:41:49.750 00:41:52.630

there were three toilets if that's what you want know.

00:41:52.630 00:41:53.210

Yeah.

00:41:53.210 00:41:54.770

And that's all there was.

00:41:54.770 00:41:55.130

Yeah.

00:41:55.130 00:41:58.039

And I do remember when we took baths.

00:41:58.039 00:42:02.260

we must have been about 10. 15 children.

00:42:02.260 00:42:04.555

Washed themselves in the bath tap.

00:42:04.555 00:42:07.300

the same bath. the same dirty water.

00:42:07.300 00:42:10.270

And the nuns washed us. we did not wash.

00:42:10.270 00:42:11.800

Every day? Did you have-

00:42:11.800 00:42:15.680

No. probably once a week. something like that.

00:42:16.330 00:42:18.815

Who slept next to you.

00:42:18.815 00:42:20.555

do you remember a girl?

00:42:20.555 00:42:24.445

No. the beds were lined up.

00:42:24.445 00:42:26.590

it was like cribs we slept in.

00:42:26.590 00:42:28.420

Because girls in the age.

00:42:28.420 00:42:29.680

you were almost eight now?

00:42:29.680 00:42:30.460

Right.

00:42:30.460 00:42:31.480

You were eight years old?

00:42:31.480 00:42:34.890

Right. Conversing with anybody. I don't remember.

00:42:34.890 00:42:36.635

I'm being very honest.

00:42:36.635 00:42:38.125

Not conversing?

00:42:38.125 00:42:40.150

Not playing ? Nothing of that?

00:42:40.150 00:42:42.720

No. that's what I said.

00:42:42.720 00:42:47.110

My memory is very short in that respect.

00:42:48.450 00:42:53.440

Things happen so quickly and so up-evil and all that.

00:42:53.440 00:42:58.610

I remember being very quiet about everything.

00:42:58.610 00:43:02.340

reluctantly to talk or anything like that.

00:43:02.950 00:43:08.395

Do you remember also crying of other children?

00:43:08.395 00:43:12.910

No. I know we were not allowed to make noise.

00:43:12.910 00:43:16.380

So. it was a very silent cry.

00:43:19.650 00:43:25.150

Do you remember any emotional thing?

00:43:25.150 00:43:27.310

You mean like throwing your feet.

00:43:27.310 00:43:29.670

or anything like that. or screaming? No.

00:43:29.670 00:43:30.765

Screaming?

00:43:30.765 00:43:31.110

No.

00:43:31.110 00:43:35.615

Crying. hugging with a nun. something emotional?

00:43:35.615 00:43:38.560

No. there wasn't. From the nuns definitely.

00:43:38.560 00:43:42.285

there was nothing emotional about them with one another.

00:43:42.285 00:43:45.420

I do not recall if there was.

00:43:45.420 00:43:48.670

whether there was or anything like that.

00:43:49.230 00:43:54.770

It was a very isolated life from what I assume.

00:43:55.920 00:44:00.340

Because girls as I mentioned before.

00:44:00.340 00:44:10.555

they tend to be friendly with other children or to have any contact.

00:44:10.555 00:44:13.500

Maybe there was. but not that I remember.

00:44:13.500 00:44:14.915

I'm being very honest.

00:44:14.915 00:44:19.295

I really don't remembered any.

00:44:19.295 00:44:29.300

Sure. I'm sorry.

00:44:29.300 00:44:29.715

No. no. no.

00:44:29.715 00:44:33.015

I said. Who was dying. he had cancer.

00:44:33.015 00:44:38.500

And I remember. how old was Yehochnan?

00:44:38.500 00:44:40.225

He was four.

00:44:40.225 00:44:44.550

And the questions he ask it's unbelievable.

00:44:44.550 00:44:49.110

And I've learned that somehow children become so smart.

00:44:49.110 00:44:51.225

they know what to do.

00:44:51.225 00:44:52.785

what to ask for.

00:44:52.785 00:44:55.730

what to understand. what not to understand.

00:44:55.730 00:44:58.740

And this is what I'm assuming happened with me.

00:44:58.740 00:44:59.265

Yeah.

00:44:59.265 00:45:02.460

That you know. You had to be quiet.

00:45:02.460 00:45:04.165

you had to do this.

00:45:04.165 00:45:05.970

That's my guesswork.

00:45:05.970 00:45:07.370

I don't know for sure.

00:45:07.370 00:45:07.690

Yeah.

00:45:07.690 00:45:09.145

I'm guessing that.

00:45:09.145 00:45:10.730

Yeah.

00:45:12.090 00:45:17.555

So. that's what my assumption is that I blanked out.

00:45:17.555 00:45:23.785

You remember. if somebody read to you a story?

00:45:23.785 00:45:24.250

No.

00:45:24.250 00:45:27.550

Do you remember a song that was sung to you?

00:45:27.550 00:45:27.985

No.

00:45:27.985 00:45:29.080

Nothing of that?

00:45:29.080 00:45:31.375

No. As a matter of fact.

00:45:31.375 00:45:33.075

if you saw those pictures.

00:45:33.075 00:45:36.170

I remember putting on those uniforms.

00:45:36.170 00:45:36.500

Yeah.

00:45:36.500 00:45:39.485

And walking on the street over there.

00:45:39.485 00:45:41.735

But that's all I remember.

00:45:41.735 00:45:45.835

But did you go out for outings?

00:45:45.835 00:45:47.140

Yes. That's why I said.

00:45:47.140 00:45:49.600

we put on those uniforms.

00:45:49.600 00:45:54.905

it was a uniform that we put on when we went outings on the street.

00:45:54.905 00:45:56.115

Yeah.

00:45:56.115 00:46:00.675

And I remember the Germans were there not far from us.

00:46:00.675 00:46:03.839

I remember them all the time being somehow.

00:46:03.839 00:46:07.820

but from what I understand occasionally they came over there.

00:46:07.820 00:46:11.910

and came to look if there were Jews over there.

00:46:11.910 00:46:15.690

Do you remember if there were sick children?

00:46:15.690 00:46:17.970

Let's say somebody was sick.

00:46:17.970 00:46:20.225

In the infirmary? I don't.

00:46:20.225 00:46:21.985

You were so young.

00:46:21.985 00:46:25.290

let's say if you've had a toothache. or.

00:46:25.290 00:46:25.870

Right.

00:46:25.870 00:46:27.000

You had fever.

00:46:27.000 00:46:29.955

I don't remember any of those things.

00:46:29.955 00:46:31.680

Yeah. okay.

00:46:31.680 00:46:32.505

No.

00:46:32.505 00:46:33.030

Yeah.

00:46:33.030 00:46:35.970

I really blanked out.

00:46:35.970 00:46:36.360

You were blanked out.

00:46:36.360 00:46:40.465

From the time that war started.

00:46:40.465 00:46:45.680

my assumption is that my life was so hectic constantly. constantly

00:46:45.680 00:46:47.615

and you had to be quiet.

00:46:47.615 00:46:50.580

You had to be quiet about everything.

00:46:50.580 00:46:54.615

Till I went to my mother's and uncle's house.

00:46:54.615 00:46:59.075

that's like a period of five years.

00:46:59.075 00:47:01.375

more than that maybe.

00:47:01.375 00:47:03.940

From when the war started.

00:47:03.940 00:47:08.230

it's like constantly you have to be fear.

00:47:08.230 00:47:11.150

that much I knew we had to be afraid.

00:47:11.150 00:47:14.230

Fear was constantly there.

00:47:14.230 00:47:15.670

And this you remember?

00:47:15.670 00:47:20.710

Yes. and this I knew that I was Jewish and I had to be very careful.

00:47:20.710 00:47:23.060

Yeah.

00:47:23.060 00:47:30.310

This is my understanding what went on.

00:47:30.310 00:47:35.570

Do you remember if there was some visits.

00:47:35.570 00:47:37.025

not your parents were not there?

00:47:37.025 00:47:42.805

No. From what I have read.

00:47:42.805 00:47:46.670

some of the kids did have visitors coming to visit them.

00:47:46.670 00:47:47.675

Yeah. that's my question. Yeah.

00:47:47.675 00:47:50.150

Yes. I did not see it.

00:47:50.150 00:47:52.440

but what I read.

00:47:52.800 00:48:01.180

Yeah.

00:48:01.180 00:48:06.130

So. you remember the last days being in this nunnery? No.

00:48:06.130 00:48:11.300

No. I just remember when they were bombing.

00:48:11.880 00:48:14.950

that was just before the armistice.

00:48:14.950 00:48:17.820

My assumption the Germans were being pushed back.

00:48:17.820 00:48:20.865

and we were not far from a forest.

00:48:20.865 00:48:21.475

Yeah.

00:48:21.475 00:48:24.380

And I remember there was a lot of bombing. shooting.

00:48:24.380 00:48:29.700

and everything then somehow the next day they came said we're free.

00:48:30.330 00:48:37.840

And after that. I don't know how long between that and what I recall that

00:48:37.840 00:48:46.690

some Polish soldiers came into the nunnery and ask if any of the Jewish kids were Polish.

00:48:46.690 00:48:49.270

I was not.

00:48:49.270 00:48:52.010

That's all I remember then.

00:48:52.590 00:48:54.175

And?

00:48:54.175 00:48:56.065

That was it. That's all I remember.

00:48:56.065 00:48:58.000

I was not Polish or Polish descent.

00:48:58.000 00:48:58.320

Yeah.

00:48:58.320 00:49:01.650

Because the truth is this much I knew.

00:49:01.650 00:49:04.425

that I was not a Belgium citizen.

00:49:04.425 00:49:06.495

Even though I was born in Belgium.

00:49:06.495 00:49:09.090

I was still a Czech-Slovakian citizen.

00:49:09.090 00:49:11.670

Belgium did not accept me as a citizen.

00:49:11.670 00:49:16.630

As a matter of fact.

00:49:16.630 00:49:19.660

when I came to the United States.

00:49:19.660 00:49:23.590

I was listed as Czech-Slovakian citizen.

00:49:23.590 00:49:26.210

I still have my visa.

00:49:28.170 00:49:32.395

So. how was it done?

00:49:32.395 00:49:34.810

The war was over.

00:49:34.810 00:49:36.760

Armistice. Armistice.

00:49:36.760 00:49:41.455

And then your uncle came to fetch you?

00:49:41.455 00:49:44.995

No. From what I understand.

00:49:44.995 00:49:46.870

they took me out.

00:49:46.870 00:49:52.520

Probably. most likely. the people that placed me in the nunnery.

00:49:52.520 00:50:03.135

they took me out from the nunnery and placed me in another camp of some sort.

00:50:03.135 00:50:07.100

Whereby. probably where a lot of children

00:50:07.100 00:50:11.060

without families or till their families reclaim them.

00:50:11.060 00:50:15.680

Remember there was no Internet to find out who was alive.

00:50:15.680 00:50:17.625

who was not alive.

00:50:17.625 00:50:22.985

Probably that was done through the Red Cross. my guesswork.

00:50:22.985 00:50:26.315

Finding out who belonged to whom.

00:50:26.315 00:50:27.530

whether they had a family?

00:50:27.530 00:50:31.715

So. do you remember saying goodbye to the nuns. for example?

00:50:31.715 00:50:38.430

No. No. I don't even remember literally being taken out from there.

00:50:39.150 00:50:43.630

I remember being in that camp and from that camp.

00:50:43.630 00:50:47.615

I recall going to my mother's aunt and uncle.

00:50:47.615 00:50:50.140

How did you go there?

00:50:50.140 00:50:51.340

Where did they live?

00:50:51.340 00:50:53.185

Oh. they lived in Brussels.

00:50:53.185 00:50:54.340

Yeah.

00:50:54.340 00:50:58.360

A 116. which would you read the pallet.

00:50:58.360 00:51:01.975

I mean that much I know. we're up.

00:51:01.975 00:51:03.940

Of how did you go to?

00:51:03.940 00:51:05.245

From there to there.

00:51:05.245 00:51:07.580

I have no inkling.

00:51:08.040 00:51:12.980

I know World War II was not over when I went to them.

00:51:12.980 00:51:15.770

It was still under the armistice.

00:51:15.770 00:51:17.330

And?

00:51:20.700 00:51:24.295

Then I went to my mother's aunt and uncle.

00:51:24.295 00:51:25.615

Unfortunately.

00:51:25.615 00:51:27.270

When you say you went to.

00:51:27.270 00:51:29.470

you cannot tell me who took you there.

00:51:29.470 00:51:34.280

No. My assumption is my aunt and uncle picked me up from there.

00:51:34.280 00:51:34.900

Yes.

00:51:34.900 00:51:37.125

I mean I couldn't have gone there without

00:51:37.125 00:51:40.715

because I didn't know who they were or anything like that.

00:51:40.715 00:51:44.990

Apparently. they went to claim me someways.

00:51:44.990 00:51:46.520

You don't know about it.

00:51:46.520 00:51:49.000

How did they know where you are?

00:51:49.000 00:51:56.730

No. No. No. This is what I resent myself that I never ask questions.

00:51:56.730 00:51:58.495

Was too painful?

00:51:58.495 00:52:01.600

No. I think it's stupidity.

00:52:01.600 00:52:04.980

when you're young you're gone think hard enough.

00:52:04.980 00:52:08.090

No. It's normal if you want to forget.

00:52:08.090 00:52:12.765

Yeah. But from one place to another place to another place without you know.

00:52:12.765 00:52:17.560

So what was the names of your uncles who lived with?

00:52:17.560 00:52:18.790

Lowenwirth.

00:52:18.790 00:52:19.739

Yeah.

00:52:19.739 00:52:21.240

The last name was.

00:52:21.240 00:52:22.240

The first name of your uncle.

00:52:22.240 00:52:25.285

Was Martin.

00:52:25.285 00:52:27.925

M-A-R-T-I-N. No one word.

00:52:27.925 00:52:28.750

Laving?

00:52:28.750 00:52:36.310

L-O-W-E-N-W-I-R-T-H.

00:52:36.310 00:52:39.415

Now you were almost nine or ten.

00:52:39.415 00:52:40.305

Right.

00:52:40.305 00:52:42.130

Yes. Do you have any?

00:52:42.130 00:52:43.565

Memories of the day.

00:52:43.565 00:52:45.105

of the day? Yes.

00:52:45.105 00:52:49.945

What kind of a girl were you after there?

00:52:49.945 00:52:50.950

The war.

00:52:50.950 00:52:57.490

The war. How did you adjust now to a different family?

00:52:57.490 00:53:03.235

Well. I lived with the understanding that my family would come back the way I came back.

00:53:03.235 00:53:07.370

It was just a matter of time waiting to see if they would come back.

00:53:07.370 00:53:11.885

when I mean I was so definitely that they were coming back.

00:53:11.885 00:53:13.610

I had no hesitation.

00:53:13.610 00:53:19.910

The only time this was later that when I came to the United States.

00:53:19.910 00:53:22.930

I came to United States to an aunt and uncle.

00:53:22.930 00:53:25.010

Actually my father's brother.

00:53:25.010 00:53:28.720

and they told me to go to "Yizkor" to say.

00:53:28.720 00:53:32.475

and that's when reality hit me.

00:53:32.475 00:53:39.180

That's it. Till then I was very hopeful always to somehow.

00:53:39.180 00:53:43.865

with the mix up in the war and things like that for sure.

00:53:43.865 00:53:45.320

So it takes another day.

00:53:45.320 00:53:46.775

another year or whatever.

00:53:46.775 00:53:49.125

I was sure I would find my family.

00:53:49.125 00:53:53.530

I did not know about Auschwitz or anything like that in those days.

00:53:53.530 00:53:57.615

I did not have the document that I have presently.

00:53:57.615 00:54:01.025

To me. any day they would come back.

00:54:01.025 00:54:03.405

and for sure life would continue.

00:54:03.405 00:54:05.740

The same way as it was before.

00:54:05.740 00:54:08.345

and it was sad.

00:54:08.345 00:54:14.030

How did you call your uncle by their names.

00:54:14.030 00:54:16.660

or uncle. or aunt?

00:54:16.660 00:54:20.185

Most likely by their aunt and uncle.

00:54:20.185 00:54:21.530

Yes.

00:54:21.530 00:54:22.625

Because.

00:54:22.625 00:54:26.255

Did they talk to you a little bit about your?

00:54:26.255 00:54:27.545

No.

00:54:27.545 00:54:31.690

So they just told you-you'll have to go for "Yizkor"?

00:54:31.690 00:54:36.260

No. This was here in the United States not in Belgium. Belgium.

00:54:36.260 00:54:37.899

In the United States.

00:54:37.899 00:54:40.715

Only in the United. When I was 13 years old.

00:54:40.715 00:54:41.475

Okay.

00:54:41.475 00:54:42.430

That's when a reality.

00:54:42.430 00:54:43.750

That's a different story.

00:54:43.750 00:54:46.930

But I want to know about your upbringing in.

00:54:46.930 00:54:52.620

In Belgium? When I was by my mother's. That was my mother's.

00:54:52.620 00:54:54.135

That was in Brussels?

00:54:54.135 00:54:56.980

Right. In Brussels. Over there.

00:54:56.980 00:55:01.855

they had four children.

00:55:01.855 00:55:06.275

One. It was a very interesting family.

00:55:06.275 00:55:07.700

The daughter.

00:55:07.700 00:55:09.705

How did they survive?

00:55:09.705 00:55:11.680

That's what I'm trying to tell you.

00:55:11.680 00:55:19.730

The daughter helped out the hiding children.

00:55:19.730 00:55:24.635

She did things for the resistance school.

00:55:24.635 00:55:26.275

She did a lot.

00:55:26.275 00:55:30.210

Then I had one of their sons.

00:55:30.210 00:55:33.080

He was in the partisan.

00:55:33.080 00:55:34.715

What was his name?

00:55:34.715 00:55:38.995

Emil. Emilo. He was in the partisans.

00:55:38.995 00:55:41.459

He was very very active.

00:55:41.459 00:55:44.720

and he did a lot of stopping of trains.

00:55:44.720 00:55:47.350

and bombing. and things like that in cinemas.

00:55:47.350 00:55:48.780

and things like that.

00:55:48.780 00:55:58.740

Then there was another son who was also very active in the partisans and unfortunately.

00:55:58.740 00:56:00.870

the Germans caught him.

00:56:00.870 00:56:03.085

They beat him to death.

00:56:03.085 00:56:04.300

What was his name?

00:56:04.300 00:56:10.420

His name was Michele.

00:56:10.420 00:56:16.300

Then the younger son with the father and mother.

00:56:16.300 00:56:22.045

they were going. trying to run away from where they lived.

00:56:22.045 00:56:26.045

They were going and the train was bombed.

00:56:26.045 00:56:33.170

That son was in the hospital for a few months recovering from the sharpnel wounds.

00:56:33.170 00:56:41.534

and my mother's uncle he had a leg amputated from that bombing.

00:56:41.534 00:56:49.530

It was very sad.

00:56:49.530 00:56:54.085

The mother she worked very hard to hold the family together.

00:56:54.085 00:57:00.580

They even took in one of her sister.

00:57:00.580 00:57:02.200

my aunts. my mother's aunt.

00:57:02.200 00:57:07.700

and she took in one of her sister's children who came from Auschwitz and

00:57:07.700 00:57:15.060

Buchenwald and tried to send him back home which was in Hungary. They had .

00:57:15.060 00:57:16.795

Do you remember of the children who came?

00:57:16.795 00:57:21.580

Yes. Yeah. That's that from that part I remember.

00:57:21.580 00:57:24.565

How do you remember them coming from Auschwitz?

00:57:24.565 00:57:25.960

Because he came.

00:57:25.960 00:57:28.360

Yeah. But how in what situation? How did he.

00:57:28.360 00:57:29.570

He was broken up.

00:57:29.570 00:57:30.620

a broken up child.

00:57:30.620 00:57:32.479

He was about 14.

00:57:32.479 00:57:33.140

What was his name?

00:57:33.140 00:57:34.835

His name was Alex.

00:57:34.835 00:57:35.675

Yes.

00:57:35.675 00:57:38.175

He was a broken up child.

00:57:38.175 00:57:47.285

Emotionally broken up. it was very sad.

00:57:47.285 00:57:50.140

The life. I went back to school over there.

00:57:50.140 00:57:52.180

and we continued life.

00:57:52.180 00:57:55.450

That's the question.

00:57:55.450 00:57:58.700

Brussels. we know it's completely different atmosphere

00:57:58.700 00:58:03.265

than Antwerp. First of all It's not so religious.

00:58:03.265 00:58:06.175

Definitely not. They were not religious.

00:58:06.175 00:58:07.735

It's different.

00:58:07.735 00:58:09.510

They were not religious.

00:58:09.510 00:58:11.630

There was no holidays.

00:58:11.630 00:58:16.650

We knew about the holidays but we did not observe it.

00:58:18.810 00:58:22.495

So. for you. it was a different completely.

00:58:22.495 00:58:26.620

You have to remember from the now and being.

00:58:26.620 00:58:27.250

So you forgot everything?

00:58:27.250 00:58:30.130

Right. So. it's like.

00:58:30.130 00:58:36.505

So. how was this transformation between the nunnery to a different life?

00:58:36.505 00:58:39.970

After all. you were for sometime in the nunnery.

00:58:39.970 00:58:43.530

and now you go completely to something else.

00:58:43.530 00:58:53.155

Right. I as I said from that section anything from then on I was okay more less.

00:58:53.155 00:58:57.760

prior to that whether mentally blocked out everything.

00:58:57.760 00:58:59.120

Also. these blocked out.

00:58:59.120 00:59:04.905

Yes. Over there. as I said we were they were not religious.

00:59:04.905 00:59:07.155

They knew about Jewishness.

00:59:07.155 00:59:09.760

but they were bitter of what has happened to

00:59:09.760 00:59:13.240

their son during the war and all their children.

00:59:13.240 00:59:17.860

As a matter of fact. the one who was the head of the partisans.

00:59:17.860 00:59:24.115

he was only freed after the World War II ended.

00:59:24.115 00:59:26.110

He was a prisoner.

00:59:26.110 00:59:30.230

Right. Yes. Prior to that.

00:59:30.360 00:59:37.565

Also. there was a lot of emotional in that family because what they went through.

00:59:37.565 00:59:40.180

they were very hyper.

00:59:40.180 00:59:43.015

It was a very active.

00:59:43.015 00:59:46.340

Not physically. but by word of mouth.

00:59:46.340 00:59:48.340

a lot of yelling that went on.

00:59:48.340 00:59:56.195

They also had the readjustment to make.

00:59:56.195 00:59:56.925

Of course.

00:59:56.925 00:59:58.520

Yes. As a matter of fact.

00:59:58.520 01:00:00.460

after they were very.

01:00:00.460 01:00:04.000

it was a communist family.

01:00:04.000 01:00:06.545

and after the war.

01:00:06.545 01:00:11.210

After I left them shortly after that they originally came from Hungary.

01:00:11.210 01:00:13.910

So they went back to Hungary.

01:00:13.910 01:00:18.860

Emil. the one that was in the partisans that was the head of the partisan.

01:00:18.860 01:00:26.450

He became chargé something out to in the government.

01:00:29.630 01:00:35.400

He did not from what I understood afterwards from other people that

01:00:35.400 01:00:40.390

one day he was a charge`that fear or something like that.

01:00:40.390 01:00:42.385

He was in Holland.

01:00:42.385 01:00:44.210

and he did not.

01:00:44.210 01:00:47.445

at that time communist was very great.

01:00:47.445 01:00:49.455

Shortly after the war.

01:00:49.455 01:00:55.520

and he did not associate with people that he knew before the war from what I was told.

01:00:55.520 01:00:58.460

He was very communist they can't hold that.

01:00:58.460 01:01:05.528

But yet. there was a little Yiddish type.

01:01:05.528 01:01:10.146

Yes. As they said. the pentathlete always was there.

01:01:10.146 01:01:13.730

They knew that they were Jewish and all that.

01:01:13.730 01:01:21.680

How was it to grow up in Brussels after the war?

01:01:21.680 01:01:22.330

Well.

01:01:22.330 01:01:24.420

How did you have now.

01:01:24.420 01:01:30.810

because until now. even not the name of one friend was mentioned.

01:01:30.810 01:01:32.250

You did not have friends.

01:01:32.250 01:01:36.690

Now. could you make friends or you still were very closed up.

01:01:36.690 01:01:38.405

Yes. In the building that I lived.

01:01:38.405 01:01:40.690

there was a little girl my age.

01:01:40.690 01:01:44.435

her name was Bevey Patniak something like that.

01:01:44.435 01:01:45.965

I don't recall the last name.

01:01:45.965 01:01:48.735

We were very close all the time.

01:01:48.735 01:01:50.385

She was Jewish as well?

01:01:50.385 01:01:55.870

Yes. I don't know what her experience was during the war.

01:01:55.870 01:01:57.450

that I couldn't begin to tell.

01:01:57.450 01:01:59.860

We did not discuss things like that.

01:01:59.860 01:02:01.775

Yeah. okay. I can imagine.

01:02:01.775 01:02:02.555

Yeah.

01:02:02.555 01:02:04.920

Back at school. did you feel good?

01:02:04.920 01:02:07.445

Was it a Jewish school?

01:02:07.445 01:02:09.370

No. It was a public school.

01:02:09.370 01:02:14.840

I continued with my Flemish education while I was there.

01:02:14.840 01:02:19.480

I had more French than I had in Antwerp.

01:02:19.480 01:02:21.290

Do you speak French now?

01:02:21.290 01:02:24.185

No. When I came to this country.

01:02:24.185 01:02:27.180

I had no one that spoke French.

01:02:27.180 01:02:30.090

So. all Flemish. so I-

01:02:30.090 01:02:33.155

I will ask you later. actually.

01:02:33.155 01:02:38.565

why did you go to the State when they were actually very kind to you in there?

01:02:38.565 01:02:44.120

As I said. I had no control what I could do with myself.

01:02:44.120 01:02:48.135

They wanted you to go to your uncle in the States?

01:02:48.135 01:02:49.575

They were. Yes. Because first of all.

01:02:49.575 01:02:50.900

it was a closer family.

01:02:50.900 01:02:54.960

It was my father's brother. while in Belgium.

01:02:54.960 01:02:58.060

where I was. it was my mother's aunt and uncle.

01:02:58.060 01:02:59.745

So this relationship-

01:02:59.745 01:03:01.150

Probably he had to look for you.

01:03:01.150 01:03:03.755

I wish you knew how he looked for you.

01:03:03.755 01:03:05.205

How they found me.

01:03:05.205 01:03:08.175

How did he found you?

01:03:08.175 01:03:10.870

They had told me through people.

01:03:10.870 01:03:16.020

one another. somehow by talking.

01:03:16.020 01:03:17.790

From what I understand.

01:03:17.790 01:03:19.660

somebody came from the States.

01:03:19.660 01:03:22.260

went to Belgium and knew the family.

01:03:22.260 01:03:25.285

or in the building where we lived. things like that.

01:03:25.285 01:03:28.080

Things got spoken to just.

01:03:28.080 01:03:31.910

where you- We found out that you knew Ellie.

01:03:31.910 01:03:34.730

You never know how things.

01:03:34.730 01:03:37.020

We will talk about it of course later.

01:03:37.020 01:03:41.240

how you found other relatives of the family.

01:03:41.240 01:03:47.615

But can you tell me something more about your life in Brussels?

01:03:47.615 01:03:50.570

No. I know where we lived.

01:03:50.570 01:03:52.585

all the houses were bombed down.

01:03:52.585 01:03:58.360

our house was the only one that's standing up there. I remember playing.

01:03:58.360 01:03:59.795

What was the atmosphere?

01:03:59.795 01:04:00.795

In Belgium?

01:04:00.795 01:04:03.280

Yeah. After the war.

01:04:03.280 01:04:07.230

I really couldn't begin to tell you.

01:04:07.230 01:04:12.245

I know I belong to an organization was called Pioneers.

01:04:12.245 01:04:15.695

and they took us on trips. and things like that.

01:04:15.695 01:04:19.270

We would meet weekly or whatever.

01:04:20.480 01:04:27.640

It was like a youth club. where I went to.

01:04:27.980 01:04:31.620

More than that. I couldn't begin to tell you.

01:04:31.620 01:04:37.480

We walked around very free in the city of Brussels.

01:04:38.510 01:04:45.965

Once. I wanted to go back to see my old home and they wouldn't let me.

01:04:45.965 01:04:49.000

They said. "You shouldn't go back."

01:04:49.200 01:04:52.700

The children in your class.

01:04:52.700 01:04:57.170

did they know that you have lost your parents?

01:04:57.170 01:04:58.030

No.

01:04:58.030 01:04:59.670

Did you ever speak about?

01:04:59.670 01:05:00.155

No.

01:05:00.155 01:05:06.065

Or you pretended like many other children that your aunt and uncle are your parents?

01:05:06.065 01:05:13.360

Right. I'm sure we never discussed that or anything like that.

01:05:13.360 01:05:18.130

We were children. whether we became happy children after the war.

01:05:18.130 01:05:20.365

trying to forget everything or what.

01:05:20.365 01:05:23.025

so possibilities out there.

01:05:23.025 01:05:26.365

We never discussed anything.

01:05:26.365 01:05:30.750

even with my mother's aunt and uncle. with the Lowenwirth.

01:05:30.750 01:05:35.980

I never discussed anything or anything like that.

01:05:35.980 01:05:38.120

It's like it never happened.

01:05:38.120 01:05:39.520

Like something never happened.

01:05:39.520 01:05:42.785

They never told you anything about your family?

01:05:42.785 01:05:43.315

No.

01:05:43.315 01:05:44.610

Did you ask them?

01:05:44.610 01:05:47.680

I did not asked. This is my problem.

01:05:47.680 01:05:52.700

But did you ask. You told us that you were sure your parents will come back.

01:05:52.700 01:05:54.790

Yes. This was my understanding.

01:05:54.790 01:05:56.640

I felt very comfortable about the-

01:05:56.640 01:05:58.055

Did you discuss it with them?

01:05:58.055 01:05:59.120

How. when or where?

01:05:59.120 01:05:59.730

Waiting for them?

01:05:59.730 01:06:05.375

No. It was an understanding on my own. this is.

01:06:05.375 01:06:08.700

One day we'll find one another.

01:06:12.330 01:06:14.785

And then you-

01:06:14.785 01:06:16.290

When I came here-

01:06:16.290 01:06:18.440

Here is not here.

01:06:18.440 01:06:20.005

it's to the State probably.

01:06:20.005 01:06:21.380

To the States. right.

01:06:21.380 01:06:23.220

I keep on forgetting where I am.

01:06:23.220 01:06:24.190

Yeah. I can imagine.

01:06:24.190 01:06:25.620

Yeah. over there.

01:06:25.620 01:06:29.650

You remember saying goodbye to your family? How was it?

01:06:29.650 01:06:31.440

In Belgium. definitely. yes.

01:06:31.440 01:06:33.350

As a matter of fact.

01:06:33.350 01:06:35.530

close to the last week.

01:06:35.530 01:06:38.575

we went and we took pictures together.

01:06:38.575 01:06:46.485

In the picture. they even inserted their son who was killed during the war.

01:06:46.485 01:06:48.145

They inserted his picture.

01:06:48.145 01:06:51.985

They left the room and inserted his picture in there.

01:06:51.985 01:06:53.180

That was our last goodbye.

01:06:53.180 01:06:57.375

They were very nice to us. to me I should say.

01:06:57.375 01:07:01.565

We said. when they took me to the airport.

01:07:01.565 01:07:03.180

I came by plane.

01:07:03.180 01:07:07.140

My uncle here was very comfortable financially.

01:07:07.140 01:07:08.665

What was his name?

01:07:08.665 01:07:12.140

Goldstein. That was my father's brother.

01:07:12.140 01:07:14.170

His first name?

01:07:14.170 01:07:16.900

Adolf. it was.

01:07:18.110 01:07:20.755

And they lived in New York?

01:07:20.755 01:07:21.630

In Brooklyn.

01:07:21.630 01:07:22.835

Yes.

01:07:22.835 01:07:25.780

They owned a bakery.

01:07:25.780 01:07:29.990

Yes. He was the brother of-

01:07:29.990 01:07:38.325

Of my father. He also had emigrated way. way before.

01:07:38.325 01:07:45.825

He came to New York to work while he left his wife in Czechoslovakia.

01:07:45.825 01:07:49.160

Every so often. he used to go and visit her.

01:07:49.160 01:07:52.770

During the war. well.

01:07:52.770 01:07:56.355

before the war invaded in Hungary.

01:07:56.355 01:08:02.045

that family came out from Czechoslovakia and came to the United States.

01:08:02.045 01:08:04.320

So. they were safe.

01:08:06.590 01:08:11.194

They had a very comfortable life here in the United States.

01:08:11.194 01:08:15.390

I was well taken care of and all that.

01:08:15.390 01:08:18.175

Yes. Again. now you have to adapt to.

01:08:18.175 01:08:19.110

A new family.

01:08:19.110 01:08:21.500

To a new family. different atmosphere.

01:08:21.500 01:08:24.870

Adjustment. a different language. and everything.

01:08:24.870 01:08:26.555

Were they religious?

01:08:26.555 01:08:29.855

Yes. They were definitely religious.

01:08:29.855 01:08:32.700

It was a different life.

01:08:32.700 01:08:37.910

It's adjustment from one lifestyle to another lifestyle to another and another.

01:08:37.910 01:08:38.640

Yeah. of course.

01:08:38.640 01:08:40.690

I went through several lifestyles.

01:08:40.690 01:08:44.570

How did you re-adapt?

01:08:44.570 01:08:50.339

Apparently. I'm getting used to that thing of readjusting and readjusting.

01:08:50.339 01:08:52.895

Were you happy with them?

01:08:52.895 01:08:53.690

Yes.

01:08:53.690 01:08:55.875

Did you feel at home?

01:08:55.875 01:08:59.175

Yes and no.

01:08:59.175 01:09:01.340

There was something always missing.

01:09:01.340 01:09:03.780

it was not my parents.

01:09:03.780 01:09:12.220

As I said. when they send me to "Yizkor" that's when reality broke in.

01:09:12.220 01:09:13.770

They told you now?

01:09:13.770 01:09:17.185

Did they explain to you why you have to go to "Yizkor"?

01:09:17.185 01:09:18.919

Apparently. I understood.

01:09:18.919 01:09:22.255

Because you said that this subject never was mentioned.

01:09:22.255 01:09:22.960

Exactly.

01:09:22.960 01:09:25.965

So. how did they deal with this subject?

01:09:25.965 01:09:27.725

It's not easy to tell a girl.

01:09:27.725 01:09:31.310

now you have to say "Yizkor". How did they do it?

01:09:31.310 01:09:33.855

Very simplistic on their part.

01:09:33.855 01:09:35.675

They said you have to go.

01:09:35.675 01:09:38.760

Whether I understood. apparently.

01:09:38.760 01:09:42.680

I understood what "Yizkor" was all about at that point.

01:09:42.680 01:09:44.905

You remember saying the "Yizkor"?

01:09:44.905 01:09:48.000

Remember. I came here January.

01:09:48.000 01:09:52.945

and the holidays were in October. right?

01:09:52.945 01:09:56.175

Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashanah and all that.

01:09:56.175 01:10:02.120

So. on my assumption I understood already what things were all about.

01:10:02.120 01:10:03.800

and I went to school here.

01:10:03.800 01:10:05.750

I did not go to Yeshiva.

01:10:05.750 01:10:09.050

I went to public school.

01:10:09.050 01:10:10.645

And?

01:10:10.645 01:10:13.285

I went on with life.

01:10:13.285 01:10:15.125

the way life is.

01:10:15.125 01:10:18.250

Unfortunately. I continued.

01:10:18.250 01:10:22.165

So. when did you start dealing with the issue?

01:10:22.165 01:10:25.895

That all your family is gone.

01:10:25.895 01:10:30.525

Until when did you push things?

01:10:30.525 01:10:32.245

Push it aside.

01:10:32.245 01:10:32.915

Aside?

01:10:32.915 01:10:36.850

"Yizkor" was the first in pushing aside.

01:10:36.850 01:10:37.390

I can imagine.

01:10:37.390 01:10:41.490

Then. later on. I

01:10:41.490 01:10:48.640

started reading and reading of all the things.

01:10:48.640 01:10:50.090

library books and things.

01:10:50.090 01:10:51.425

From what age?

01:10:51.425 01:10:53.905

From about the age of 13.

01:10:53.905 01:10:55.960

I started gradually.

01:10:55.960 01:10:58.230

There wasn't much information.

01:10:58.230 01:11:07.140

Gradually. over time. I saw what happened and the emotional part of my parents.

01:11:07.140 01:11:10.370

what they I assume went through.

01:11:10.370 01:11:16.710

that hit. over time.

01:11:17.080 01:11:22.945

I send in the papers to Yad Vashem whenever they asked for the papers.

01:11:22.945 01:11:27.790

Then over time. we got more information. My kids sent. took. went to.

01:11:28.160 01:11:32.529

When Yad Vashem opened up the computers.

01:11:32.529 01:11:35.955

they put all the information. My kids did it.

01:11:35.955 01:11:42.125

Yes. But I talk about the time you were in New York.

01:11:42.125 01:11:48.465

growing up with the Goldstein family.

01:11:48.465 01:11:51.200

How did they treat you?

01:11:51.200 01:11:57.070

Did they have psychological understanding towards your suffering?

01:11:57.070 01:12:02.620

I'm sure not. because it was a family that was very busy with working.

01:12:02.620 01:12:07.010

They were constantly working because of the bakery that they had.

01:12:07.010 01:12:12.130

Even the mother. my aunt. she worked also.

01:12:12.540 01:12:16.390

They was more involved in the bakery.

01:12:16.700 01:12:24.420

There was a financial need that they were- that type of people.

01:12:24.420 01:12:26.670

Emotionally. it was to myself.

01:12:26.670 01:12:29.050

I could not discuss things with them.

01:12:29.050 01:12:36.680

Did you long. probably you long for the other family in Brussels?

01:12:36.680 01:12:38.045

Yes.

01:12:38.045 01:12:39.890

Did you write to them?

01:12:39.890 01:12:43.050

We corresponded. yes. till they moved to Hungary

01:12:43.050 01:12:46.385

whereby it was behind the Iron Curtain in those days.

01:12:46.385 01:12:49.155

So there was no communication.

01:12:49.155 01:12:49.875

Yeah.

01:12:49.875 01:12:51.950

After many. many years.

01:12:51.950 01:12:55.570

I mean. it must have been about 10 years or so.

01:12:55.570 01:12:58.860

I got some information about them.

01:12:58.860 01:13:00.675

what they were doing. you know.

01:13:00.675 01:13:02.825

And did you meet with them?

01:13:02.825 01:13:05.790

I went there many years later.

01:13:05.790 01:13:07.290

I don't recall what year.

01:13:07.290 01:13:09.480

but I was married with my husband.

01:13:09.480 01:13:14.320

We went there and I just met the two sons.

01:13:15.670 01:13:20.540

My mother's aunt and uncle no longer were alive at that point.

01:13:20.540 01:13:25.015

and they had a daughter which I was told that she no longer was alive.

01:13:25.015 01:13:28.480

So it was only the two sons and the saddest part was

01:13:28.480 01:13:32.445

very hard to correspond with them because my French was gone.

01:13:32.445 01:13:34.480

That was the only language.

01:13:34.480 01:13:38.485

My husband was the intermediary because he spoke Hungarian.

01:13:38.485 01:13:41.340

So we were there for a week.

01:13:41.340 01:13:44.710

It was very nice meeting them and all that.

01:13:44.710 01:13:48.235

Unfortunately. now they're gone also. both of them.

01:13:48.235 01:13:56.630

I can imagine that it was very moving.

01:13:56.630 01:14:00.230

At the end. that's what life is all about.

01:14:00.230 01:14:08.990

I am sure in New York you met with many children of survivors or survivors.

01:14:08.990 01:14:12.525

No. I never met any child. my age child.

01:14:12.525 01:14:16.570

Like. a little bit older generation I understood.

01:14:16.570 01:14:19.305

that's the generation that.

01:14:19.305 01:14:21.340

In the neighborhood where I lived.

01:14:21.340 01:14:25.405

that went through Auschwitz. You know there were the Hungarians.

01:14:25.405 01:14:28.280

I'm sure you saw people for example. with number.

01:14:28.350 01:14:35.580

How did it affect you because I remember seeing those people in Jerusalem and it was.

01:14:35.580 01:14:36.495

It shocked you?

01:14:36.495 01:14:39.015

Shocked? was it a shock for you?

01:14:39.015 01:14:40.915

No. because I knew about that.

01:14:40.915 01:14:43.060

It's a matter of fact. I have my sister in-law.

01:14:43.060 01:14:46.300

I had two sisters in-laws that had the numbers.

01:14:46.300 01:14:48.745

Yes. but they caught after that?

01:14:48.745 01:14:51.385

Right. No question about it.

01:14:51.385 01:14:54.785

From having read so much and all that.

01:14:54.785 01:14:57.620

you become embedded with it.

01:14:57.620 01:15:03.150

You said that you were a girl that you kept for yourself?

01:15:03.150 01:15:06.340

Right. and all those years in the nunnery I mean.

01:15:06.340 01:15:07.550

I never spoke about

01:15:07.550 01:15:08.755

And after with the family?

01:15:08.755 01:15:10.690

Even then we didn't speak about it.

01:15:10.690 01:15:12.590

Is it also with the Goldstein family?

01:15:12.590 01:15:14.420

Never. They never questioned me.

01:15:14.420 01:15:17.200

They never asked and I never spoke.

01:15:17.200 01:15:20.320

never volunteered. That part.

01:15:20.320 01:15:24.295

But the Holocaust did it have a presence in your home?

01:15:24.295 01:15:26.510

At the Goldstein family?

01:15:26.510 01:15:30.735

No. No. it did not have a presence at all.

01:15:30.735 01:15:33.930

They were tuned down. from that part.

01:15:33.930 01:15:38.335

I think people who have not lived in

01:15:38.335 01:15:46.130

there and who are not interested. don't have an understanding what an upheaval that was.

01:15:46.130 01:15:49.730

A real upheaval.

01:15:49.730 01:15:54.440

Families broken apart in pieces and not

01:15:54.440 01:15:56.810

finding one another and then having learned years

01:15:56.810 01:16:00.680

later that that they did survive and not seen one another.

01:16:00.680 01:16:05.780

Did you feel you were an orphan? Or because you were brought-

01:16:05.780 01:16:08.340

The funniest thing.

01:16:08.530 01:16:15.500

No. I did not feel I was an orphan till a grand daughter said to me "Pappy.

01:16:15.500 01:16:17.375

you are an orphans."

01:16:17.375 01:16:22.490

I've looked at her. I couldn't associate in that presence.

01:16:22.490 01:16:23.570

You did not associate with that?

01:16:23.570 01:16:26.510

No. as being an orphan. definitely not.

01:16:26.510 01:16:28.790

She said. "You had no parents"

01:16:28.790 01:16:31.445

So it's your granddaughter that mentioned it to you?

01:16:31.445 01:16:33.140

The first time. the word.

01:16:33.140 01:16:38.540

I had never.

01:16:38.540 01:16:41.490

Strange world that we went through.

01:16:49.400 01:16:54.425

What about about your life later?

01:16:54.425 01:16:56.765

When did you get married?

01:16:56.765 01:17:00.240

I got married very young. I was 20 years.

01:17:00.280 01:17:03.980

Also to a Holocaust survivor?

01:17:03.980 01:17:05.135

Yes.

01:17:05.135 01:17:06.260

What was his name?

01:17:06.260 01:17:07.745

The name of your husband?

01:17:07.745 01:17:09.650

Aaron Katz.

01:17:09.650 01:17:11.840

What was his story?

01:17:11.840 01:17:13.400

How did he survive?

01:17:13.400 01:17:18.020

He was. they called

01:17:18.020 01:17:24.680

it Munkaszolgalat He is from the Hungarian section.

01:17:24.680 01:17:27.085

Also he comes from Czechoslovakia.

01:17:27.085 01:17:30.260

that area where my parents came from.

01:17:31.060 01:17:35.680

As a matter of fact. he knew some of my family.

01:17:35.680 01:17:37.840

You mentioned it previously.

01:17:37.840 01:17:39.895

Yeah. he knew some of my family.

01:17:39.895 01:17:41.170

which I didn't know.

01:17:41.170 01:17:42.220

So. it was a shidduch?

01:17:42.220 01:17:51.950

No. it was not a shidduch. We know one another because he was working for my uncle in the bakery.

01:17:53.560 01:17:56.060

I worked there also.

01:17:56.060 01:17:59.265

part of the time. so we got to know one another very-

01:17:59.265 01:18:01.920

Did he lose family as well?

01:18:01.920 01:18:04.795

Yes. he lost his parents.

01:18:04.795 01:18:08.840

which we call. he lost two younger.

01:18:08.840 01:18:11.180

a brother and sister. young ones. But he.

01:18:11.180 01:18:16.610

What was the name of the brothers and sister. you know?

01:18:16.610 01:18:18.420

I have to think very hard.

01:18:18.420 01:18:19.900

I can't think of them.

01:18:19.900 01:18:21.250

And he had.

01:18:21.250 01:18:25.620

I'm trying to think.

01:18:25.620 01:18:29.355

four sisters that where in Auschwitz with him.

01:18:29.355 01:18:31.340

Not with him. excuse me.

01:18:31.340 01:18:33.065

he didn't go to Auschwitz.

01:18:33.065 01:18:35.615

As a matter of fact. once they all had

01:18:35.615 01:18:42.035

the numbers and one sister gave birth in the Auschwitz.

01:18:42.035 01:18:44.420

How do you know about that?

01:18:44.420 01:18:48.660

You see. that family gets together and they talk about it.

01:18:48.660 01:18:52.155

I had nobody to talk about my experience as.

01:18:52.155 01:18:53.025

And they did.

01:18:53.025 01:18:59.320

They did. So. I was well aware of the conversation that was going on all the time.

01:18:59.440 01:19:06.180

They were fortunate in the respect that they all were able to came out more or less healthy.

01:19:06.180 01:19:09.720

Probably the fact that you came. more or less.

01:19:09.720 01:19:11.435

from the same place.

01:19:11.435 01:19:14.960

geographical place and background

01:19:14.960 01:19:16.340

Pushed us together.

01:19:16.340 01:19:17.435

Pushed you together.

01:19:17.435 01:19:21.610

Right. We had an understanding of some sort. Yeah.

01:19:21.610 01:19:23.490

Yes.

01:19:24.520 01:19:26.955

Hopefully. we had a good life.

01:19:26.955 01:19:29.070

We had like 62 years together.

01:19:29.070 01:19:33.750

Oh. Did you talk with their children?

01:19:33.750 01:19:36.910

Just what they asked. I answered.

01:19:36.910 01:19:38.780

No. I mean. you yourself.

01:19:38.780 01:19:40.760

Did you volunteer to talk?

01:19:40.760 01:19:41.615

Volunteer? I don't think so.

01:19:41.615 01:19:43.170

Why not?

01:19:44.140 01:19:50.720

Sometimes I was hesitant whether what I'm telling is the truth. I did not.

01:19:50.720 01:19:53.810

And neither your father or your husband?

01:19:53.810 01:19:56.720

No. No. he didn't question me.

01:19:56.720 01:19:59.195

No. I didn't volunteer either.

01:19:59.195 01:20:02.735

So you both of you did not talk much about it?

01:20:02.735 01:20:05.855

He spoke about that with his family. He did.

01:20:05.855 01:20:07.745

But you and your husband?

01:20:07.745 01:20:09.665

Together? I don't think so.

01:20:09.665 01:20:11.240

I might have mentioned here.

01:20:11.240 01:20:13.010

a word there. a word. but nothing.

01:20:13.010 01:20:16.850

Did you want to protect the fact that you did not talk with your children?

01:20:16.850 01:20:19.595

It did not penetrate to me one way or another.

01:20:19.595 01:20:22.115

It's something that. as I said.

01:20:22.115 01:20:24.950

perhaps I've wanted to blank out that section of my life.

01:20:24.950 01:20:28.070

And is it possible to blank out? That's my question.

01:20:28.070 01:20:28.730

I don't know.

01:20:28.730 01:20:29.885

After all those years.

01:20:29.885 01:20:32.375

do you think it's really or it's-

01:20:32.375 01:20:35.015

It's there. no question about it.

01:20:35.015 01:20:37.205

And this is why I.

01:20:37.205 01:20:40.040

Did you name your for example.

01:20:40.040 01:20:40.910

My children?

01:20:40.910 01:20:42.740

Yes. After your parents.

01:20:42.740 01:20:46.070

after your brothers and sister?

01:20:46.070 01:20:49.325

One. she's named after my mother.

01:20:49.325 01:20:54.080

After my father. I couldn't name because my husband had the same name.

01:20:54.080 01:20:56.675

As a matter of fact. now. we have a grandchild.

01:20:56.675 01:20:58.370

great grandchild that was born.

01:20:58.370 01:21:02.240

that was given by my husband and my father's name.

01:21:02.240 01:21:06.680

and not the children because they were told very

01:21:06.680 01:21:11.350

nicely that you don't name children that die an unhealthy deaths.

01:21:11.350 01:21:14.750

Because most people named their children

01:21:14.750 01:21:19.330

But those were young children so they never gave. That's number one.

01:21:19.330 01:21:27.580

Number two. I didn't know their Jewish names. you understand?

01:21:27.580 01:21:31.160

That was a problem also.

01:21:31.210 01:21:39.730

So when did you came to your realization that you are a Holocaust survivor?

01:21:42.880 01:21:46.830

When? Probably. gradually over the years as an adult.

01:21:46.830 01:21:52.680

As a matter of fact.

01:21:52.680 01:21:56.350

once someone asked me if I wanted to be interviewed.

01:21:56.350 01:21:59.500

I said. "No" because I don't remember.

01:22:05.720 01:22:11.035

It's my children that brought that out in me through the Yad Vashem.

01:22:11.035 01:22:14.365

Before Yad Vashem. when they were adults.

01:22:14.365 01:22:16.225

growing in the USA.

01:22:16.225 01:22:19.235

did they ask you questions?

01:22:19.235 01:22:21.735

Yes. and maybe not.

01:22:21.735 01:22:22.815

Also not.

01:22:22.815 01:22:25.210

I don't think so. no.

01:22:25.460 01:22:32.250

my husband. because they heard my husband and his sisters and brothers talking together.

01:22:32.250 01:22:33.810

But they did not ask about you and your story?

01:22:33.810 01:22:39.730

Not specific. No. because I think they understood that I didn't know.

01:22:42.760 01:22:45.480

I think that was part of it.

01:22:45.480 01:22:47.180

I really don't think.

01:22:47.180 01:22:49.250

Because. as you see.

01:22:49.250 01:22:51.800

a lot I don't remember.

01:22:51.800 01:22:56.320

So. there wasn't too much to reveal.

01:22:56.320 01:23:07.070

Now. they're doing research and all that.

01:23:07.070 01:23:10.665

and she has taken me to Yad Vashem a few times.

01:23:10.665 01:23:12.270

How many children do you have?

01:23:12.270 01:23:13.290

I have three.

01:23:13.290 01:23:14.565

Three children.

01:23:14.565 01:23:17.760

But a lot of grandchildren and great-grandchildren.

01:23:17.760 01:23:25.880

So. that's one of the grateful results.

01:23:25.880 01:23:29.440

The grandchildren probably do ask question also?

01:23:29.440 01:23:30.460

No.

01:23:30.460 01:23:31.820

No.

01:23:31.820 01:23:33.795

No.

01:23:33.795 01:23:39.070

They know that I'm a Holocaust survivor. and that's it.

01:23:39.070 01:23:42.670

They might know that factual things.

01:23:42.670 01:23:45.920

what I say. but nothing.

01:23:45.920 01:23:49.455

Did you have. as a grown-up.

01:23:49.455 01:23:55.830

any theological problem with God. with belief?

01:23:55.830 01:23:58.635

You lost all your family.

01:23:58.635 01:24:01.275

Were you ever angry with God?

01:24:01.275 01:24:06.230

I'm sure I was resentful of what has happened.

01:24:06.230 01:24:13.270

I don't question that one way or another.

01:24:13.270 01:24:16.060

I accept it for what it is.

01:24:22.290 01:24:27.170

That's that.

01:24:27.170 01:24:28.400

I have nothing more to say.

01:24:28.400 01:24:31.190

No.

01:24:31.190 01:24:37.100

We'd still like to ask you

01:24:37.100 01:24:44.260

some questions about coming back to. did you visit?

01:24:45.010 01:24:49.805

What we call. did you make a root visit. we call it?

01:24:49.805 01:24:50.980

At home?

01:24:50.980 01:24:53.775

Masa Shorashim to your home?

01:24:53.775 01:24:55.905

No. I never went back.

01:24:55.905 01:25:00.180

Why? Didn't you want to close a circle?

01:25:00.180 01:25:07.950

The point was. from what I understand.

01:25:07.950 01:25:09.875

what will I see there?

01:25:09.875 01:25:17.500

Nothing. The last time I wanted to see was when my cousin in Belgium took

01:25:17.500 01:25:25.075

me to Antwerp to get my official papers to be able to come to United States.

01:25:25.075 01:25:28.930

So we were on the side route of where I lived.

01:25:28.930 01:25:31.940

So I said. "Let me stop over there." He says. "No!"

01:25:31.940 01:25:37.255

And my assumption is there's really nothing really to go back to.

01:25:37.255 01:25:39.520

From what I understand.

01:25:39.520 01:25:41.650

people have told me that the Arabs live in

01:25:41.650 01:25:46.050

that neighborhood. so definitely nothing.

01:25:46.050 01:25:53.665

I think my memory is better than if I would go and see what isn't probably.

01:25:53.665 01:25:57.855

the whole thing probably is destroyed or something like that.

01:25:57.855 01:26:07.330

The way you brought up your children was influenced by the way you went through.

01:26:07.330 01:26:12.200

After all you went from family to orphanage from family.

01:26:12.200 01:26:18.450

How did you deal with the way you brought up your children?

01:26:18.450 01:26:28.100

I don't think I didn't hold them back from things.

01:26:28.100 01:26:32.470

I hope not. from letting them live the way they wanted to live.

01:26:32.470 01:26:36.460

I think on their own.

01:26:36.460 01:26:37.805

they have a good life.

01:26:37.805 01:26:39.380

They made the best out of it.

01:26:39.380 01:26:41.775

They went to school. Yeshiva.

01:26:41.775 01:26:46.020

and I'm assuming they made a good marriage.

01:26:46.020 01:26:47.640

and they're all happy.

01:26:47.640 01:26:54.270

Hopefully. we did not have an evil influence upon them or held them back from things that .

01:26:54.270 01:26:58.020

It's not about evil. it's about transforming.

01:26:58.020 01:27:01.780

Yes. a relationship with them.

01:27:01.780 01:27:09.290

I don't know. That's for a psychologist to analyze me or analyze my children.

01:27:09.290 01:27:12.620

Did you ever need to go or to speak to a psychologist?

01:27:12.620 01:27:14.660

No. never desired to.

01:27:14.660 01:27:15.515

Never?

01:27:15.515 01:27:25.200

No. Hopefully. I was not depressed or anything.

01:27:25.200 01:27:27.045

neither was my husband.

01:27:27.045 01:27:31.455

Also. we did not make a very unhappy household. hopefully.

01:27:31.455 01:27:37.250

Yeah. So. the Shoah was not present in your home?

01:27:37.250 01:27:40.330

I hope not. yes.

01:27:40.330 01:27:42.750

Just as they got older.

01:27:42.750 01:27:45.855

they says that but Yad Vashem opening up the doors.

01:27:45.855 01:27:49.690

on their computer. that's where they all got involved.

01:27:51.020 01:27:53.669

They research and research.

01:27:53.669 01:27:58.425

trying to find roots more than my emotional status.

01:27:58.425 01:28:05.340

Yeah. You told me previously that you met after long because you said.

01:28:05.340 01:28:08.490

"All my family was gone."

01:28:08.490 01:28:10.170

As far as I knew. yes.

01:28:10.170 01:28:13.980

But then you told me you met with a relative?

01:28:13.980 01:28:14.025

Right

01:28:14.025 01:28:18.600

How did it happen all of a sudden?

01:28:18.600 01:28:20.205

She is the one who did it.

01:28:20.205 01:28:22.590

The name of your children.

01:28:22.590 01:28:23.985

by the way. what are?

01:28:23.985 01:28:27.390

Sandra. Ramona. and Mark.

01:28:27.390 01:28:30.850

Yeah. They went on the Internet.

01:28:30.850 01:28:33.330

on the Yad Vashem site.

01:28:33.330 01:28:38.850

and they started looking haphazardly and then became more involved and more

01:28:38.850 01:28:45.285

involved until she realized that two people.

01:28:45.285 01:28:52.610

that was me. and somebody else was searching under my father's name. mother's name.

01:28:52.610 01:28:54.875

She started putting together.

01:28:54.875 01:29:03.740

and she called up a cousin of mine here in Israel and started talking to her.

01:29:03.740 01:29:08.510

And the woman said. "Forget it."

01:29:08.510 01:29:10.525

She hang up on her.

01:29:10.525 01:29:14.890

Then she said she called her again later on.

01:29:14.890 01:29:19.520

and she explained to her what she found on Yad Vashem sites.

01:29:19.520 01:29:27.480

She asked if you know a Rosa Gotkatz or Aaron Goldstein.

01:29:27.480 01:29:31.230

They saw that putting the two together.

01:29:31.230 01:29:34.665

and it came out that we were family.

01:29:34.665 01:29:37.740

She met them first.

01:29:37.740 01:29:40.180

way before I did.

01:29:40.760 01:29:43.995

If I'm trying to remember correctly.

01:29:43.995 01:29:51.030

she called me up. through that cousin.

01:29:51.030 01:29:52.450

if I'm correct what I'm saying.

01:29:52.450 01:29:54.345

she mentioned to her.

01:29:54.345 01:29:57.720

Ellie Bosh who's in the States.

01:29:57.720 01:30:03.870

I should call him up and explain to him who I was and this and that.

01:30:03.870 01:30:06.315

So. I called him.

01:30:06.315 01:30:11.260

and his mother's name was Olga Katz.

01:30:11.990 01:30:15.890

which happened to be my name presently.

01:30:15.890 01:30:19.050

So. I said. "My name is Olga Katz.

01:30:19.050 01:30:20.640

but don't hung up on me."

01:30:20.640 01:30:24.840

I said. "I'm going to try to explain to whom I am and all that."

01:30:24.840 01:30:29.190

He was flabbergasted. He says.

01:30:29.190 01:30:31.110

"I'm coming over right now."

01:30:31.110 01:30:34.020

And sure enough. he came over.

01:30:34.020 01:30:37.480

Then over time. I met his brother here.

01:30:37.480 01:30:39.070

I came for a wedding.

01:30:39.070 01:30:41.080

I met his brother.

01:30:41.080 01:30:43.270

His name is Mati.

01:30:43.270 01:30:45.885

and they gave me pictures of the mother.

01:30:45.885 01:30:49.760

They started telling me a little bit about it.

01:30:49.760 01:30:51.900

And Sandra. my daughter.

01:30:51.900 01:30:56.475

got in touch with one who lives in Australia.

01:30:56.475 01:31:01.790

a cousins daughter. and she became befriended.

01:31:01.790 01:31:03.785

and somehow things got.

01:31:03.785 01:31:06.050

So. you discovered that family.

01:31:06.050 01:31:07.730

Part of the family. yes.

01:31:07.730 01:31:10.785

Because before. for example.

01:31:10.785 01:31:16.120

how did you celebrate the Hagim with no family?

01:31:16.120 01:31:18.430

That was it. Well. I celebrated.

01:31:18.430 01:31:20.200

But your husband had some family..

01:31:20.200 01:31:20.375

Right. right.

01:31:20.375 01:31:22.110

Yes. so that helped you?

01:31:22.110 01:31:25.005

Yes. And as I said.

01:31:25.005 01:31:28.050

I had my aunt and uncle here in the States where I went to.

01:31:28.050 01:31:33.350

That was the only family I had here that I knew of then.

01:31:33.350 01:31:39.120

That was it.

01:31:39.120 01:31:43.335

It's a very strange coincidence. very pleasant also.

01:31:43.335 01:31:49.365

Yes. Olga. before we end up our session.

01:31:49.365 01:31:54.075

would you like to say something for next generation.

01:31:54.075 01:31:59.505

for your grandchildren. for the people who will listen today.

01:31:59.505 01:32:02.310

what would you sum up?

01:32:02.310 01:32:06.210

I would like that they should know that there was a family.

01:32:06.210 01:32:07.950

that I had a family.

01:32:07.950 01:32:11.550

Unfortunately then. they went through hell.

01:32:11.550 01:32:19.020

Try to remember them.

01:32:19.020 01:32:21.465

Have us all in mind one day.

01:32:21.465 01:32:24.555

How do you want them to be remembered?

01:32:24.555 01:32:29.380

In prayer so would be nice and in thought.

01:32:30.560 01:32:34.920

Unfortunately. nobody got to meet them.

01:32:34.920 01:32:41.270

She's always trying to remember that there was a family that existed.

01:32:41.270 01:32:43.610

and through unfortunate things.

01:32:43.610 01:32:49.030

they were not able to fulfill a life.

01:32:51.480 01:32:57.100

We thank you. I thank you on behalf of Yad Vashem and of course on my behalf.

01:32:57.100 01:33:03.050

It's an honor to do it eventually.

01:33:03.050 01:33:05.420

I was reluctant to always do it.

01:33:05.420 01:33:08.720

But I think my family is entitled to it.

01:33:08.720 01:33:17.055

So. i'm just glad that you told your story. You were ready to share hard moments with us.

01:33:17.055 01:33:19.070

Thank you very much for doing it.

01:33:19.070 01:33:21.305

And we thank you very very much.

01:33:21.305 01:33:22.190

Thank you.

01:33:22.190 01:33:24.350

God will bless you.

01:33:24.350 01:33:26.465

He has already.

01:33:26.465 01:33:29.345

We have very big family now.

01:33:29.345 01:33:32.440

Do you see it the kind of revenge?

01:33:32.440 01:33:34.375

That's what my kids say.

01:33:34.375 01:33:37.600

for all that past we have.

01:33:37.600 01:33:41.890

God knows I have I think 16 grandchildren.

01:33:41.890 01:33:47.595

out of three children and I have about 20 or so great grandchildren.

01:33:47.595 01:33:48.670

Beautiful.

01:33:48.670 01:33:51.055

We're not finished yet.

01:33:51.055 01:33:53.155

There's more to come.

01:33:53.155 01:33:56.800

Ken yirbu. we say in Hebrew Ken yirbu .

01:33:56.800 01:33:57.730

Amen. Yes.

01:33:57.730 01:33:58.825

Thank you very much.

01:33:58.825 01:34:02.440

Thank you. Okay. we accomplished.

01:34:02.440 01:34:03.710

Okay sure.

01:34:03.710 01:34:10.780

It's a bit quiet here.

01:34:10.780 01:34:14.825

Okay. Here's a picture of my grandparents on my mother's side.

01:34:14.825 01:34:17.760

It's Dora and Yosef Katz.

01:34:17.760 01:34:21.280

her maiden name was Lowenwirth.

01:34:33.450 01:34:38.350

And close is a picture of Smolnik the way it looks today.

01:34:38.350 01:34:43.480

On the right side. is a grave of my grandmother. Deborah Katz.

01:34:43.480 01:34:44.395

What's next? Dina.

01:34:44.395 01:35:42.000

Who is that?

01:35:42.840 01:35:53.030

This is Hava Furer's mother.

01:35:53.030 01:36:00.820

Her brother. Yes.

01:36:00.820 01:36:03.410

It took a long time in there.

01:36:11.850 01:36:22.670

And close you will

01:36:22.670 01:36:25.340

see a picture of my aunt and uncle.

01:36:25.340 01:36:30.210

They're from Smolnik and their last name was Katz.

01:36:30.390 01:36:33.505

And they perished in the holocaust. yes?

01:36:33.505 01:36:37.420

Yes. they also perished in the Holocaust.

01:36:46.070 01:36:51.930

Here is a picture of Cipora Katz and Martin Katz.

01:36:51.930 01:36:54.330

This is family I just discovered.

01:36:54.330 01:36:57.065

way after recently when.

01:36:57.065 01:37:01.270

Yad Vashem went on the Internet.

01:37:01.270 01:37:05.770

They were both alive after the war.

01:37:05.940 01:37:17.440

Okay. Now This is the Lowenwirth family.

01:37:17.440 01:37:24.310

Those are my mother's aunt and uncle with whom I stayed after the war.

01:37:24.310 01:37:27.160

They helped me survive.

01:37:35.540 01:37:41.000

This is the last picture I took before coming to the United States.

01:37:41.000 01:37:43.890

I was just 13 then.

01:37:45.120 01:37:57.810

This is a picture

01:37:57.810 01:38:05.505

of my mother that was taken way before the war and I received this picture from a cousin

01:38:05.505 01:38:09.300

of mine from Australia whom we

01:38:09.300 01:38:14.530

discovered and met for the first time 60 years after the war.

01:38:26.310 01:38:31.429

This is a picture of my parents that was taken by the Germans.

01:38:31.429 01:38:36.635

where they had to report and they were identified.

01:38:36.635 01:38:40.320

and they both perished in the war.

01:38:40.660 01:38:43.510

How did you find this?

01:38:43.510 01:38:48.180

It was through the German govern- was

01:38:48.180 01:38:54.995

later given through identification from the Belgium government.

01:38:54.995 01:38:57.605

That's what they had on hand.

01:38:57.605 01:39:12.340

This is the documentation

01:39:12.340 01:39:14.890

that we received from the Belgian government.

01:39:14.890 01:39:18.850

Whereby. my family had to register.

01:39:18.850 01:39:23.120

And the only one that survived which

01:39:23.120 01:39:28.650

shows on the picture was me whereby there's no red stamp.

01:39:43.170 01:39:47.480

This is a picture of the nunnery where I was at.

01:39:47.480 01:39:51.960

And it looks like that's me sitting over there in the third row.

01:39:51.960 01:40:01.590

And I recognize some of the nuns and unfortunately that's where I was during the war.

01:40:03.660 01:40:06.920

I would say fortunately.

01:40:13.440 01:40:15.915

But I didn't want to be there.

01:40:15.915 01:40:17.430

I wanted to survive.

01:40:17.430 01:40:19.040

Of course.

01:40:23.520 01:40:27.790

This is excerpt that was taken out from

01:40:27.790 01:40:33.530

the group picture of the nunnery whereby I stay during the war.

01:40:38.070 01:40:41.110

This is a picture of the bedroom where I

01:40:41.110 01:40:44.050

slept all those years while I was in the nunnery.

01:40:44.050 01:40:46.795

The Beds felt like cribs.

01:40:46.795 01:40:50.450

And they closed that up at night.

01:41:00.690 01:41:02.750

This is our wedding.

01:41:02.750 01:41:06.565

we were married March 27. 1955.

01:41:06.565 01:41:08.185

It was a lovely wedding.

01:41:08.185 01:41:11.215

We had a good life for 62 years.

01:41:11.215 01:41:15.280

and we had three children together.

01:41:15.280 01:41:20.980

Okay.

01:41:20.980 01:41:27.850

Now we like one picture of you.

01:41:27.850 01:41:29.485

Seeing on this picture?

01:41:29.485 01:41:31.565

I could figure out.

01:41:31.565 01:41:35.020

It's one of the grandchildren's wedding.

01:41:39.540 01:41:44.440

This is at the wedding of one of our grandchildren.

01:41:44.440 01:41:46.500

It was a lovely wedding.

01:41:46.500 01:41:50.600

You could see my husband and myself.

01:41:50.600 01:41:56.785

Unfortunately. the girls from New York wasn't able to come and neither was my son.

01:41:56.785 01:41:59.960

But it was a very happy wedding.

01:42:13.980 01:42:19.600

This is my granddaughter's wedding that was just recently in New York.

01:42:19.600 01:42:24.090

Over there. you could see Sandra on the right and Ramona on the left.

01:42:24.090 01:42:26.955

and my son on the left side.

01:42:26.955 01:42:31.080

and the rest of the grandchildren are there.

01:42:31.080 01:42:33.010

There is two. three.

01:42:33.010 01:42:35.050

Thank you.

Testimony of Olga (Goldshtein) Katz, born in Antwerp, Belgium, 1933, regarding her experiences in Antwerp and in hiding in a convent in Heverlee using a false identity Her parents were born in Czechoslovakia; her grandfathers' work as ritual slaughterers in Czechoslovakia; boycotts against Jews [Jewish establishments]; Yellow Badge; transfer to a sanatorium due to a lung disease; Deportation of the family to Auschwitz; in hiding in the Convent of Misericorde nunnery in Heverlee; change of her last name to Dupont; life [in the convent]; searches by Gestapo men; liberation; Life with her relative Martin Launburg in Brussels; move to relatives in New York; life in New York.